if I'm gonna die right now all of these what i'm percieving right now still exist?

[Edvard]

31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If it doesn't matter, then you shouldn't mind dying or suffering. But you do mind, because you are self-biased

I meant that it doesn't matter that there are no "whos", however you define "who", because of suffering. So suffering exists, you say. Isn't that enough?

I think it could be more accurate to say that everything exists and non-exists at the same time. 

31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The metaphysics matters enormously. The only reason you seem to exist is because your metaphysics tells you so. Change your metaphysics and you cease to exist, and so will suffering.

Yeah, but if something can cease, it obviously was something there before it ceased. The illusion and suffering was there. What I would conclude is that we have to exist, because although existing in itself doesn't make any sense, at the same time not being conscious is a paradox and impossible - the Now has to be eternal. That's what my notion has been for a long time, but this sense is even stronger now that I've gotten over the Dawkins and Krauss', etc.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Edvard

[Edvard]

56 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You exist as a fragile fantasy

Right, I don't dispute that. When we're talking about nightmares at night, too, we give those meaning. They can be pleasant or unpleasant, although those dreams people actually realize are unreal.

I can tell that I would rather have a pleasant dream over an unpleasant dream. Because of self-bias? Of course! But self-bias is also the content of this dream, and there is nothing to do about it, unless it is, unless enlightenment happens. But it either happens or it doesn't.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Edvard

[snowleopard]

Isn't the 'you' that is dispelled just the exclusive identification trap ... I am such and such, vs all those things I am not?  Seems that even 'I am enlightened' is also such a trap. Apparently that too is imaginable.

[Edvard]

2 hours ago, Craig F said:

There is nothing; and then there is everything; which is infinite. So the human sitting there reading this right now has to be there; else reality wouldnt be infinite and reality can only be infinite.

Ah... and so the one reading it is the same one, just in a future or past life, which in actuality happens simultaneously and infinite times, because time is an illusion? Interesting. 

[mp22]

In a word, YES

 

OR, you are God who made himself forget who you were for some unknown reason and the only way to rediscover this knowledge (without your god powers of course) is to smoke the secretions of an American toad subspecies. Right now you are talking to yourself since I am also god and this is one giant illusion.

[Edvard]

@blazed

6 minutes ago, blazed said:

Its a bit like the ultimate video game where you can play any character in the same video game over and over again.... including all the birds and animals, and insects, etc and because you have internal time.... you actually do play them all 

Too bad you can't quit when you like.. or maybe one could by suicide... but then I guess you would still be dealt a random new game. If you only knew, you could just kill yourself every time you get born into a nightmare... but I guess that is a little oversimplicated of an idea. I guess it's just random, infinite and happening in the Now. Anyway, hard to make sense of it with concepts, and without actually being the Truth.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Edvard

[snowleopard]

@blazed Yup ... if there is 'someone' who is 'self'-identifying as being enlightened, then there would seem to be some dispelling yet to happen

Edited December 7, 2017 by snowleopard

[Deep]

12 hours ago, John Iverson said:

The trees,the objects, the chair, the television, the people, the wind.. the clouds... etc they will be still exist without me? Or they exist at this very moment because i'm conscious of what appears in the moment?  They are real because i'm conscious? And if I'm not conscious enough to see what appears in the moment they are not real? Is reality become real if you are conscious and stop appearing if you are dead?

This question can't be logically answered because the answer lies in experience. You have to experience higher states of consciousness to know. 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Edvard said:

is a paradox and impossible

That's your mistake right there.

[Shin]

Paradoxes can only exist as long as you try to make sense of something.

Life doesn't have any meaning whatsoever, only an ego needs meaning.

[Joseph Maynor]

4 minutes ago, Shin said:

Paradoxes can only exist as long as you try to make sense of something.

Life doesn't have any meaning whatsoever, only an ego needs meaning.

Yep.  You can release every paradox.  

[Edvard]

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's your mistake right there.

The paradox of nothing. There is no nothing, which is why death doesn't exist - there's always going to be that space of consciousness left. Mystics and even you said so... You even said in the video Leo Hits Rock Bottom - EVERYTHING Understood, quote: "you can't not exist". That was a thing you reportedly had discovered. 

Doesn't this pretty much prove my point here; that it's just semantics we're talking about?

Edited December 7, 2017 by Edvard

[snowleopard]

@Edvard Perhaps there's something to be said in favour of the buddhist idea of emptiness, rather than nothingness , which can have a nihilistic connotation ... Even emptifullness might better express the paradox of it. 

[Joseph Maynor]

2 hours ago, blazed said:

I never see any gurus or famous enlightened people claim "I am enlightened", only ppl on the internet forums, or people that look like new agers and scammy type of gurus. I think claiming "I am enlightened" after real enlightenment is redundant.

There’s a stupid taboo against admitting you are awake.  Of course Enlightenment is a life-long process not a destination too.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Edvard]

47 minutes ago, Edvard said:

You even said in the video Leo Hits Rock Bottom - EVERYTHING Understood, quote: "you can't not exist". That was a thing you reportedly had discovered.

@Leo Gura To be accurate, you said: "I also became acutely aware that non-existence is impossible". Mistake?

At 21:12 :

Edit: Oh, about a minute later, you said: "so existence is literally impossible". So which is it?

Edited December 8, 2017 by Edvard

[Nahm]

11 hours ago, John Iverson said:

He should come to a realization that what he is saying end up to nothing HAHAHAAHH

Exactly!

[Joseph Maynor]

3 hours ago, blazed said:

No. You should get a better understanding on why the real gurus don't use the term directly from them.

This video below puts it well at the end.

https://streamable.com/x1g2d

"Only the one who knows how carry that power to transmit it non-verbally - that is how you know"

The devil will use the term more anyone else

Seeking understanding is your problem not mine. If you’re awake, more understanding is superfluous.  Enlightenment is not about having the right beliefs.  The awake person realizes all beliefs are false.  This is not merely believed either.  Only awareness can lead you to this perspective.  To me the Devil is telling someone that they’re wrong based off irrelevant third-party testimony.  The whole point of being awake is to realize that no third-party testimony is relevant.  There is no single right answer — insisting on that is what the Mind wants to do.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

@blazed Please elaborate.  You just accused me without defending your thesis.  That’s not a valid criticism.  Let me try to assist you to unpack what is being said here.  You wanted to challenge me — let’s have a real discussion on the matter.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

Hey — I didn’t mean to take all the oxygen out of the room on this question haha.  Let’s keep this alive!  This is a good question.  A magical question.  Certain questions are magical on here you gotta admit. And you can’t predict in advance which questions will have that magical quality.  There’s an element of surprise!

Edited December 8, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[John Iverson]

20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The truth is, you are already dead. You just don't realize it. Just because appearances arise, doesn't make you alive.

You  mean that i'm reincarnated to this body? That's why i'm already dead? All of these exist long time ago , and all of these exist at the same time don't exist... like the stars, it exist but even they appear until now they are already dead.. because that's the magic of beingness, just be, they are just be ..at the sametime they are not appear