John Iverson

if I'm gonna die right now all of these what i'm percieving right now still exist?

60 posts in this topic

21 minutes ago, Edvard said:

@krazzer So you're saying there is no suffering then, expect for this one perspective? And this means that empathy makes zero sense, unless it backfires? So the only reason for treating other beings well, is purely for reasons that does not involve empathy (or putting yourself into other's shoes, as one says)???

Yes the self can suffer, thinking it is the body. Empathy is just a mechanism. Whether you treat others well is up to you. But you probably know what will happen if you don't treat others well. 

21 minutes ago, Edvard said:

OR, is it just that I am everyone simultaniously, I'm just not aware of it... it's just that time is relative, so it just seems like I'm reincarnating through time, but actually everything happens in one single moment???

You are everyone simultaneously. Time doesn't exist.


Easy choices, hard life. Hard choices, easy life.

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4 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@John Iverson nothing

 

He should come to a realization that what he is saying end up to nothing HAHAHAAHH

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3 minutes ago, krazzer said:

But you probably know what will happen if you don't treat others well. 

I know that people won't like me. But I said if it's exclusively for empathy, i.e. stamping on an ant. What conequences will that have? Karma in your next life?

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@John Iverson But if you are going to think about the ego, consider the history of it. Nowadays, people get on their knees and pray to God. But that’s not how it started. That’s the EGO prayin! ?

Back when villages were small, people didn’t have the societal ego, and they would be so filled with the Joy, so in love with the illusion, that they would fall to their knees in tears, in gratitude. 

“I can’t stand to fight the feelin, cause the thought alone is killin me right now.”

Hey Yah

Yah......

Yahwey

Hey God

God is right here:

 

 


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3 hours ago, John Iverson said:

The trees,the objects, the chair, the television, the people, the wind.. the clouds... etc they will be still exist without me? Or they exist at this very moment because i'm conscious of what appears in the moment?  They are real because i'm conscious? And if I'm not conscious enough to see what appears in the moment they are not real? Is reality become real if you are conscious and stop appearing if you are dead?

They exist as much as you do.  They are as real as you are.  Regardless of "your" consciousness.

It is rather egocentric really to go to funerals and see others die, but think the world and everything would disappear once you die.  This is just another way to make the world revolve around you (so to speak).  What ego!


Eric Putkonen - stopped blogging and now do videos on YouTube - http://bit.ly/AdvaitaChannel

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2 minutes ago, Edvard said:

I know that people won't like me. But I said if it's exclusively for empathy, i.e. stamping on an ant. What conequences will that have? Karma in your next life?

That is not karma.. go to Leo's blog click the blog and search for the karma, read it.. or you watch the video of Leo what is karma.. you will understand it.. and btw.. don't be negative about liking you.. we are one and we are love.. you are love...

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2 minutes ago, John Iverson said:

That is not karma.. go to Leo's blog click the blog and search for the karma, read it.. or you watch the video of Leo what is karma.. you will understand it.. and btw.. don't be negative about liking you.. we are one and we are love.. you are love...

It was a question. We were discussing how empathy for it's own sake makes sense if there are no one to suffer. Then krazzer said; "you will probably know what happens if you don't treat others well". OK, so if that's true, what will I know to happen by stamping on an ant? What consequence, given that the ant doens't exist? (hypothetically, of course)

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4 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@John Iverson But if you are going to think about the ego, consider the history of it. Nowadays, people get on their knees and pray to God. But that’s not how it started. That’s the EGO prayin! ?

Back when villages were small, people didn’t have the societal ego, and they would be so filled with the Joy, so in love with the illusion, that they would fall to their knees in tears, in gratitude. 

“I can’t stand to fight the feelin, cause the thought alone is killin me right now.”

Hey Yah

Yah......

Yahwey

Hey God

God is right here:

 

 

When i take 13 grams of mushroom, insight i have for that is they are lost.. yes it is the ego they are destructed.. unconsciously they feel the essense of God but suddenly they are ignorant they even don't know how to express themselves for such wonderful love of God., we are thankful because there is Leo that we discover how to search for the truth but them that is their way to express themselves to God ignorantly... so even they are like that we know there is God.. and we are one.. and they are unconscious on what we are conscious about and their actions flow even if they not know what is the reason why they want to express themselves that way

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You don’t die.  That’s the counter-intuitive thing.  The belief that you die is a false belief.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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@John Iverson You've got the whole thing backwards.

1) You don't exist.

2) Neither does anything else.

The only problem is that you are identified with appearances and consider them "reality". That is all.

Try flipping your model upside down. Walk around for a day telling yourself, "Everything I'm seeing, is what death looks like."

You are walking around inside of death right now. You're just calling it "life".

The truth is, you are already dead. You just don't realize it. Just because appearances arise, doesn't make you alive.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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33 minutes ago, blazed said:

If illusions are all you have doesn't that still make them real as far as real can go?

It's hard to say you dont exist when you're still conscious or aware of something.

You're still bound by reality, you still eat, sleep, you're not going to jump in front of a speeding car no matter how enlighened you are, will you?

Or do you mean your true nature which is the screen of everything and therefore you're watching everything else in automation? So you're awake to the movie that is playing and detached from everything which is utimately not you.

THERE IS NO YOU!

There are only appearances identical with nothing. You are nothing. You are not bound to anything because you don't even exist. Eating, sleeping, jumping in front of a car -- that's not you. That's appearances appearing. Stop assuming you're an appearance.

Check direct experience.

P.S. "the screen" you are talking about, is nothing. It's a not-screen.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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@blazed There are infinite perspectives.

If you weren't your perspective, you'd another, or none at all.

It's sort of like you're asking, why is a tree a tree and not a rock? Because if it was a rock, it would be a rock, not a tree. And what determined which thing a thing will be? It's absolutely infinite. All things have been, are being, and will be. That is the wonder of God.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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36 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The truth is, you are already dead. You just don't realize it. Just because appearance arise, doesn't make you alive.

Who doesn't realize it, you say?? 

For an illusion to occur, that's good enough for me to call it real. Just as real and unreal as a videogame, just with/without other perspectives, but again, perspectives is all that matter to us regardless of the metaphysics. This is a wordgame. Most people are trapped in a seeming solid reality, and what happens in this dream matter to how one feels, whatever you call it, real or unreal, but those words are not what matter to us. What we care about is suffering less and gaining more happiness - having a larger piece of life, as Sadhguru puts it. That's all we care about, and most of us are trapped here regardless of the metaphysics, it doesn't matter what you call it ----except that realizing the true nature of your "self" seems to be the ultimate solution to the suffering going on, and being in a state of not-knowing. You're not in a state of not-knowing by saying that reality doesn't exist - it's just an other label you put on it.

How do you define existence? The dictionary describes it like this : to have actual being; be.

What is reality? It just is, right? By being.

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4 minutes ago, Edvard said:

Who doesn't realize it, you say??

No one doesn't realize it. That's the absurdity of it.

You assume there are whos, but there aren't.

Ask yourself, "WTF is a who? How could one possibly exist?"

Notice, it can't!


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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@blazed I struggled with this for a while too. I finally came to the realization of what Leo was saying one day when I started to observe what I thought was "my perspective".  Theres this thought in your mind that theres some mystical thing behind your eyes thats watching you. But that itself is a thought. The perspective itself is a thought. And the thought of perspective is just happening, there is no "You" that thought is happening to. There is nothing; and then there is everything; which is infinite. So the human sitting there reading this right now has to be there; else reality wouldnt be infinite and reality can only be infinite. Again conceptualizing it doesnt get the point across because it can only work within thought.

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4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You assume there are whos, but there aren't.

Ask yourself, "WTF is a who? How could one possibly exist?"

Notice, it can't!

It doesn't matter. There is suffering no matter what you say. It's torment because of literary nothing. But again, given the fact that it's torment, and that there are perspectives (as you say), how does the metaphysics of this matter in that regard? It changes nothing, unless, perhaps, it's realized by nothing, but nevertheless realized.

Why did you create Actualized.org? Why do you try to make lives "better" if there is no suffering? Whether that suffering is illusory or not, well, I don't think such a distinction exists when it comes to suffering. And when I say "you", I mean that the "brain" of Leo Gura (yes, which doesn't exist materially speaking) would find it utterly illogical to care about anything, and doing anything.

But yet, you seem to care about people, so if you do agree that there is suffering and perspectives, that is something even if it's nothing - no matter what you label it it's just that - labels and concepts. Many enlightened people call it being. What else can being do but to be? I don't get your wordgame. And "who" is also a word. 

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55 minutes ago, blazed said:

that is the one thing i cant seem to shake off is the fact that I am constantly experincing life from a certain human body and therefore it is me,

Hehe, of course you can't seem shake it off. That's what makes you, you. The self is an extremely tenacious illusion. As it must be, since your very life depends on it.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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@Edvard The one playing word games is you.

If it doesn't matter, then you shouldn't mind dying or suffering. But you do mind, because you are self-biased.

The metaphysics matters enormously. The only reason you seem to exist is because your metaphysics tells you so. Change your metaphysics and you cease to exist, and so will suffering.

The problem here, is that you're assuming there is such a thing as an objective metaphysics. But there is not. Which means your mind can make up whatever nonsense it wants and count it as reality. Which is precisely how you came into being. If you were truly objective, there couldn't be a you. You exist as a fragile fantasy, which is why you suffer so easily. Every sharp corner threatens to pop your bubble of delusion. That's all that suffering is. Your game is to avoid every sharp corner to protect your little bubble, and enlightenment the deliberate bursting of that bubble once and for all.

No fantasy bubble, no more problems.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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It's true that what 'one'  (for lack of a better name for the nameless), is in essence is no thing, has no identity, and is empty of selfness. Suffering is all about things and identities and selfness. The mystery is why that which 'one'  is in essence seems compelled to imagine it to be so. And then imagines to dispel that. Seems one can only imagine that it has some telos. If not, why bother? Could it only be for the sheer thrill of it, like some suspension of disbelief while watching a movie? 'Who' knows?  ... Carry on.

Edited by snowleopard

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