if I'm gonna die right now all of these what i'm percieving right now still exist?

[John Iverson]

The trees,the objects, the chair, the television, the people, the wind.. the clouds... etc they will be still exist without me? Or they exist at this very moment because i'm conscious of what appears in the moment?  They are real because i'm conscious? And if I'm not conscious enough to see what appears in the moment they are not real? Is reality become real if you are conscious and stop appearing if you are dead?

[Nahm]

@John Iverson you must be sellin practices, cause that reads like an ad. ❤️

[John Iverson]

1 hour ago, blazed said:

Does any alternative reality feel real to you? Well they all exists and don't exists

There is something come out to me that i stick to this so called reality that if i'm dead they will not exist at all haha

[Preetom]

@John Iverson Here are some points that I'm yet to grasp the Truth of myself through first hand insight. Try contemplating on them 

First of all, "The trees, objects, chairs, tvs etc.'' that you mention are 'Thoughts' RIGHT NOW if you are actually NOT perceiving them directly. Of course those Thoughts die the moment you stop thinking about them...long before you physically die. Now, Thought = Mental image/sound or combination of both. Emotions are the feeling sensations generally associated with thought. They have 2 sides. 1) The Story they create and convince 'you' to cling to them. 2) Their ACTUAL Reality..which is 'just' mental sound/image/feel when you are experiencing them NOW.

Second of all, Your "The trees, objects, chairs, tvs etc.'' and My "The trees, objects, chairs, tvs etc.'' are two totally different worlds (even if we both are perceiving the same "The trees, objects, chairs, tvs etc.''  ). Your personal world dies with the death of your perception and so is mine. Whatever we perceive is our personal world. There is no objective "The trees, objects, chairs, tvs etc.'' out there.

Third of all, what you REALLY are or the SUPREME never dies. Its timeless, birthless, deathless and bvkjlzbgvuazbgdviuBZJVlbadsuvb . So after things come and go, the SUPREME alone exists as if nothing ever had any reality of its own.

Hope these pointers guide you in the right direction. And finally I wanna share a very very important principle for enlightenment work that I heard from Leo's video.

''Whatever that is not happening right now, in your direct experience, is NOT real''

Keep this principle constantly in mind and keep doing consciousness work. Your question if things exist or not irrespective of you, cannot be verbally answered. Don't you see the limitation here? Are you here to believe someone else's words for granted?

Have a direct grasp of the TRUTH yourself. Happy sitting alone and contemplating 

 

[John Iverson]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

@John Iverson you must be sellin practices, cause that reads like an ad. ❤️

What do you mean? What is ad? 

[Nahm]

@John Iverson gonna make a post about this. ❤️

[John Iverson]

11 minutes ago, Preetom said:

@John Iverson Here are some points that I'm yet to grasp the Truth of myself through first hand insight. Try contemplating on them 

First of all, "The trees, objects, chairs, tvs etc.'' that you mention are 'Thoughts' RIGHT NOW if you are actually NOT perceiving them directly. Of course those Thoughts die the moment you stop thinking about them...long before you physically die. Now, Thought = Mental image/sound or combination of both. Emotions are the feeling sensations generally associated with thought. They have 2 sides. 1) The Story they create and convince 'you' to cling to them. 2) Their ACTUAL Reality..which is 'just' mental sound/image/feel when you are experiencing them NOW.

Second of all, Your "The trees, objects, chairs, tvs etc.'' and My "The trees, objects, chairs, tvs etc.'' are two totally different worlds (even if we both are perceiving the same "The trees, objects, chairs, tvs etc.''  ). Your personal world dies with the death of your perception and so is mine. Whatever we perceive is our personal world. There is no objective "The trees, objects, chairs, tvs etc.'' out there.

Third of all, what you REALLY are or the SUPREME never dies. Its timeless, birthless, deathless and bvkjlzbgvuazbgdviuBZJVlbadsuvb . So after things come and go, the SUPREME alone exists as if nothing ever had any reality of its own.

Hope these pointers guide you in the right direction. And finally I wanna share a very very important principle for enlightenment work that I heard from Leo's video.

''Whatever that is not happening right now, in your direct experience, is NOT real''

Keep this principle constantly in mind and keep doing consciousness work. Your question if things exist or not irrespective of you, cannot be verbally answered. Don't you see the limitation here? Are you here to believe someone else's words for granted?

Have a direct grasp of the TRUTH yourself. Happy sitting alone and contemplating 

 

Everytime i let go all of the concepts in my mind and see it as it is i stick to what I'm perceiving right now, and I'm wondering if "i" the perceiver alone will remove what I'm perceiving right now did all of these disappear as i remove also the one who could make this a reality and real? Hahahahhaa right now while i'm typing this.. I'm getting emotional I don't know why ?

Edited December 7, 2017 by John Iverson

[krazzer]

3 hours ago, John Iverson said:

1. The trees,the objects, the chair, the television, the people, the wind.. the clouds... etc they will be still exist without me?
2. Or they exist at this very moment because i'm conscious of what appears in the moment?  
3. They are real because i'm conscious?
4. And if I'm not conscious enough to see what appears in the moment they are not real?
5. Is reality become real if you are conscious and stop appearing if you are dead?

The way I see it:

1. No, you created them
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes
5. Yes

[Nahm]

19 minutes ago, John Iverson said:

What do you mean? What is ad? 

An advertisement.

You’ll find all those answers in your physical death, and all is well. You could also adopt the daily practice of self inquiry, and discover, you’re not actually alive.

To be in the physical, dead, living - nothing is better!!!! ❤️??

You’re plenty conscious enough. Trust me on that John. Your consciousness is infinite af. You’re blocking it with thinking. If there were a way around the practices, even with the trips, I would have found it, and I would be sharing it with you now. Practice, it expands you into everything. 

[Edvard]

I can guarantee you that "I" am a perspective, but you can't check if that is true. The same goes if you guarantee me that "you" are a perspective. 

But still, time is relative, so in a sense it will not exist when you die. Time doesn't pass if you're "dead". But there is a perspective right here, yet @Leo Gura denies my existence, which I both see and don't see how can make any sense, at the same time. And I'm not arguing whether the self is an illusion here, or that the world is immaterial, I'm just saying that if perspectives exist, that is all that matter to us, regardless of whatever is true about the metaphysics.

If there are no other perpectives, now, then I'm following, just too bad I'm talking to robots... But of course, given that I'll never know the answer to that (it seems) it doesn't make any difference. Actually, not even if I somehow knew the answer... well empathy would make less sense then (unless I was going to be all the perpectives, which someone suggests)

Edited December 7, 2017 by Edvard

[Scholar]

To me it seems like causality doesn't really make sense from a Non-dual perspective. All of your questions are invalid from what I can tell. In fact, all questions whatsoever are invalid, just as all statements are invalid. Everything is absolutely valid and invalid the same time.

It's tricky to talk about this because no matter what you say, it's wrong. Even what I just said is wrong, and even the statement that what I just said is wrong, is wrong. It's not even really wrong. Validity is not valid. Statements are just statements. Knowledge is just knowledge. Ideas are just ideas.

What you are asking us to do is try to describe to you the color red. It's absolutely impossible. If you want to know, you gotta go and experience it yourself.

 

What you have to realize is that nobody can give you the answer, because the answer doesn't exist. 

 

And, everything I just told you is completely wrong too. Oh, and the fact that everything I told you is completely wrong is wrong too. And everything everyone tells you is wrong too, and yet it's wrong that everything everyone tells you is wrong.

You have to understand that you cannot understand. For you to see the truth your mind has to give up looking for the truth.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Scholar

[krazzer]

5 minutes ago, Edvard said:

If there are no other perpectives, now, then I'm following, just to bad I'm talking to robots...

Every perspective is it's own world. Yes, you are talking to robots. As am I.

[John Iverson]

14 minutes ago, krazzer said:

The way I see it:

1. No, you created them
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes
5. Yes

Ahaaaaaaa!!! , wohh!!

in number 1, i created them because it appears as it is what I'm  percieving is also me that i create whenever they are infront of me and percieving it?

[Edvard]

@krazzer So you're saying there is no suffering then, expect for this one perspective? And this means that empathy makes zero sense, unless it backfires? So the only reason for treating other beings well, is purely for reasons that does not involve empathy (or putting yourself into other's shoes, as one says)???

OR, is it just that I am everyone simultaniously, I'm just not aware of it... it's just that time is relative, so it just seems like I'm reincarnating through time, but actually everything happens in one single moment???

Edited December 7, 2017 by Edvard

[snowleopard]

@John Iverson That which 'you' are in essence does not depend upon what appears as a body-form interacting with what appears to be a tree-form -- or any other form. However, as a conscious agent within the context of this spacetime construct, any kind of sensual interaction or communication does depend upon the appearance of forms, for the sake of having this kind of relational experience. In the same way, any communication or interaction within the limited context of this forum depends upon the appearance of word-forms. If not active in this forum, these word-forms have no relevance to you, as they are just electrical data inside an information processor. Analogously, if 'you' are not focused in this spacetime construct, then its forms have no relevance. What all such forms are in essence could then be likened to potential information inside a cosmic mind at large, which is only relevant when you, as a conscious agent, are focused on that. In the dreamtime context, that focus is much more relaxed, and a lot of shape shifting and dimensional shifting can happen -- as in an NDE or OBE or other altered states, which are not limited to the rule-set of this spacetime construct. So that could be some example of what it's like when 'you' leave it after the body-form is no longer relevant.

Edited December 7, 2017 by snowleopard

[Markus]

Everything is in Consciousness. Anything you might consider to be outside of consciousness is just a belief, an idea - that may very well be useful, but it is still just an idea. Just like the idea of the "I" that's going to die. Where is that I in your consciousness?

[John Iverson]

10 minutes ago, Nahm said:

An advertisement.

You’ll find all those answers in your physical death, and all is well. You could also adopt the daily practice of self inquiry, and discover, you’re not actually alive.

To be in the physical, dead, living - nothing is better!!!! ❤️??

You’re plenty conscious enough. Trust me on that John. Your consciousness is infinite af. You’re blocking it with thinking. If there were a way around the practices, even with the trips, I would have found it, and I would be sharing it with you now. Practice, it expands you into everything. 

it's true.. okay i will not block this.. because a little while a go i let go the wondering mode,.. it becomes psychedelic mode all i'm percieving I can't explain it... i can't find my physicality in everything percieve in the moment and even the body I don't see it as a body.. i see it not different what I'm perceiving in my surroundings is like i'm formlesssssssssssssssssssssss.. i'm formlessssss!???? WTFFFFFFFF!! I'm formlessssssssssssss!!! Whaaaaaat? I'm formlessssssssssssssss! Yassss i'm thaaaaaaat! All of these is a hallucination!! WTH!! I get it! Do i? I don't? .. okay i will listen to youu ?

[Nahm]

@John Iverson ???❤️

[John Iverson]

20 minutes ago, Edvard said:

I can guarantee you that "I" am a perspective, but you can't check if that is true. The same goes if you guarantee me that "you" are a perspective. 

But still, time is relative, so in a sense it will not exist when you die. Time doesn't pass if you're "dead". But there is a perspective right here, yet @Leo Gura denies my existence, which I both see and don't see how can make any sense, at the same time. And I'm not arguing whether the self is an illusion here, or that the world is immaterial, I'm just saying that if perspectives exist, that is all that matter to us, regardless of whatever is true about the metaphysics.

If there are no other perpectives, now, then I'm following, just to bad I'm talking to robots...

I understand what you are saying.., the "Perspective" you drop it.. all of the concepts you have drop it... all interpretations you have drop it.. drop all the things you learn in school, parents, parents, Leo, people, and all in your head drop it.. what's left now? 

[Nahm]

@John Iverson nothing