People who claim to be enlightened are far from it?

[Principium Nexus]

Enlightenment for me is detaching oneself from all ideas and concepts and experiencing reality from a non-dual perspective. When someone claims "he or she" is enlightened then they identify themselves with a certain thing which they are not. Their ego wants confirmation by saying these things but the non ego does not care. It just acts and is without further ado.

When I see someone who really knows who he is and what hes doing then I still wouldn't call him enlightened because that term cannot ever be fully achieved. It's a constant journey and a path that ends with your physical death (as far as we know).

A more proper term to use would be, one is fully awake, because this shows one is in the highest state of being, or fully present.

Does anyone agree? Isn't enlightenment a path rather than a destination?

[Shanmugam]

A ball of sugar jumps inside a pot of water and it takes on a journey to absorb as much water as it can. It becomes smaller and smaller as time goes by until it is fully dissolved one day... Once the ball has completely disappeared, is there anymore journey for that ball? The sugar molecules which were in the ball are still there in the water, they may still undergo changes. But do those changes belong to the original sugar ball?  The sugar ball is the person you think you are and the water is the existence... In a way, the sugar ball has now become water. But to be more precise and exact, the sugar ball is not there anymore. There are no clear boundaries between the sugar ball and the water. Another way of saying this would be that sugar ball and the water is one and the same now.

[Highest]

Enlightenment is a concept, it exist only in the mind. Ultimately only the Self is truly and certainly real. Everything is obersved by it and came after it, the whole universe, the body, all experience, and the mind. Be still and the truth will shine trough.

[AleksM]

@Principium Nexus

The most high is not the one who transcends all. The highest one is the one who transcends all and includes all. 

To be fully awake, means that you embody the realization that everything is happening inside You and that you are inside it. Just like in a dream. 

Yes, enlightenment is not a final destination, it is a journey. The journey is the goal. The goal is the experience of this  now moment and also the alignment of yourself(ego) with the True Self.  I have mentioned this in my guide #2.

[Joseph Maynor]

It’s funny that there’s a taboo in this work against saying you’ve awakened.  Nobody gets to admit that!  Ever!  Who made this rule?  Why is it enforced all the time?  Do I get to choose for myself?  Let’s not deny the obvious.  There are differences is awareness amongst people.  That is very obvious.  You do have people that are more awake than others.

Edited December 2, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[eputkonen]

5 hours ago, Principium Nexus said:

Enlightenment for me is detaching oneself from all ideas and concepts and experiencing reality from a non-dual perspective. When someone claims "he or she" is enlightened then they identify themselves with a certain thing which they are not. Their ego wants confirmation by saying these things but the non ego does not care. It just acts and is without further ado.

When I see someone who really knows who he is and what hes doing then I still wouldn't call him enlightened because that term cannot ever be fully achieved. It's a constant journey and a path that ends with your physical death (as far as we know).

A more proper term to use would be, one is fully awake, because this shows one is in the highest state of being, or fully present.

Does anyone agree? Isn't enlightenment a path rather than a destination?

Even the Buddha said "I am awake"...so I guess even the Buddha was not enlightened according to you. The meaning of the word Buddha is "The Enlightened One".  Awake and enlightened are synonyms.

So I disagree...the statement can be made that a happening termed "enlightenment" occurred without identification, ego, etc.  Enlightenment is not a constant journey...but an occurrence...like the bottom of a bucket falling off and then all the water goes with it (using an old Zen analogy).  Enlightenment is seeing through the "me" and the cessation of suffering (as a "me" needs to be believed in order to suffer).

[Guest username]

@Principium Nexus You can still talk like a normal person when you're enlightened. It is possible to realize the absolute.

If realization is the Absolute is what you'd call Enlightenment, then there's no issue in saying you're enlightened. I'm not Enlightened yet, for instance, but I'm in what I'd consider an awakened state, one that frequently experiences non-duality and is on the verge of stabilizing into an abiding realization. It's no more arrogant for me to claim that I am awakened than it is for me to say that I'm wearing a blue shirt. 

 

Are those all just concepts? You bet. But there's no rule saying you can't think or use concepts. Just have insight into what they are.

If Enlightenment as you define it means something else to you and is not achievable, then that's what it is for you and by your definition nobody in Enlightened. But keep in mind other people may not be referring to the same thing.

Edited December 2, 2017 by username

[Ascend]

9 hours ago, Principium Nexus said:

Enlightenment for me is detaching oneself from all ideas and concepts and experiencing reality from a non-dual perspective. When someone claims "he or she" is enlightened then they identify themselves with a certain thing which they are not. Their ego wants confirmation by saying these things but the non ego does not care. It just acts and is without further ado.

When I see someone who really knows who he is and what hes doing then I still wouldn't call him enlightened because that term cannot ever be fully achieved. It's a constant journey and a path that ends with your physical death (as far as we know).

A more proper term to use would be, one is fully awake, because this shows one is in the highest state of being, or fully present.

Does anyone agree? Isn't enlightenment a path rather than a destination?

Congrats you just realized how many people on this forum are delusional. Yes, it's a form of identification, also "spiritual pride". The ego becoming proud in achieving spiritual levels and the ego thinking it is enlightened. Of course, pride is a far cry from enlightenment. 

[Faceless]

@Principium Nexus I would say it’s about neither a path nor destination. In this projected idea of thought we would be chasing our idea of enlightenment and not the actuality or fact that the word enlightenment points to.

Dropping all ideas and concepts is what freedom implies. Freedom from the prison of thought. Freedom from the past implies the capacity to meet the present. 

So I would say its more like a patheless journey without the destination holding any significant value. Just enjoying the beauty along the way. 

And while this journey does end when the physical body dies, this journey could never begin without the the death of the psychological entity that I call the Me, which is thought.

[Joseph Maynor]

19 minutes ago, Faceless said:

@Principium Nexus I would say it’s about neither a path nor destination. In this projected idea of thought we would be chasing our idea of enlightenment and not the actuality or fact that the word enlightenment points to.

Dropping all ideas and concepts is what freedom implies. Freedom from the prison of thought. Freedom from the past implies the capacity to meet the present. 

So I would say its more like a patheless journey without the destination holding any significant value. Just enjoying the beauty along the way. 

And while this journey does end when the physical body dies, this journey could never begin without the the death of the psychological entity that I call the Me, which is thought.

It’s not dropping all thoughts and concepts — in fact you want to continue to amass thoughts and concepts.  Awareness is seeing the thoughts and concepts for what they are.  That causes a release of traps and suffering.  Thoughts and concepts are only harmful if you cling to the limiting-belief that they are. 

Edited December 3, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Faceless]

It’s about observing, seeing, understanding,  and realizing thought in it’s structure and abstract nature.. Dropping ideas and concepts about what we think enlightenment, self realization and so on are. To have a quiet mind not in a constant state of becoming. Thought is the vehicle of these ideas and concepts. And yes there is nothing wrong with thought as a function. But within the psychological realm thought has no place. Anyone who claims to be enlightened and doesn’t see this is sadly mistaken and will only live a life in division, conflict, and will suffer. 

 

[Faceless]

Anyone have something fresh to bring to this. Maybe someone with something to say. Maybe something worthwhile

What do u guys think about the pursuit and attainment of enlightenment for the pursuit of status and respectability? 

Sounds absurd doesn’t it??? Lololololo 

[Nahm]

@eputkonen do you see the paradox? 

17 hours ago, eputkonen said:

Even the Buddha said "I am awake"...so I guess even the Buddha was not enlightened according to you. The meaning of the word Buddha is "The Enlightened One".  Awake and enlightened are synonyms.

So I disagree...the statement can be made that a happening termed "enlightenment" occurred without identification, ego, etc.  Enlightenment is not a constant journey...but an occurrence...like the bottom of a bucket falling off and then all the water goes with it (using an old Zen analogy).  Enlightenment is seeing through the "me" and the cessation of suffering (as a "me" needs to be believed in order to suffer).

 

[eputkonen]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

@eputkonen do you see the paradox? 

 

Seeing through the "me" and not being fooled by it...but a body/mind still exists and there is a recognition of a localized awareness.    Also, speech is still possible...and speech is dualistic...so there still can be a reference to a "me" without being fooled by the conventions of speech.

[krazzer]

On 2-12-2017 at 4:44 PM, Principium Nexus said:

Enlightenment for me is detaching oneself from all ideas and concepts and experiencing reality from a non-dual perspective. When someone claims "he or she" is enlightened then they identify themselves with a certain thing which they are not. Their ego wants confirmation by saying these things but the non ego does not care. It just acts and is without further ado.

When I see someone who really knows who he is and what hes doing then I still wouldn't call him enlightened because that term cannot ever be fully achieved. It's a constant journey and a path that ends with your physical death (as far as we know).

A more proper term to use would be, one is fully awake, because this shows one is in the highest state of being, or fully present.

Does anyone agree? Isn't enlightenment a path rather than a destination?

It doesn't matter. Most enlightened people do not care about other people agreeing that they're enlightened. But even enlightened people still have a conditioned body/mind mechanism that could proclaim itself enlightened.

[pluto]

You either know or you don't. What others think or believe is their opinion/journey.

If you knew you were enlightened you can most definitely still choose to say so if you wish and it does not mean you are not. There's layers of understanding/experience you go through words simply cannot suffice.