Pearls Before Swine: Do People Deserve the Truth?

[hinawashi]

I'm seeing this problem all over the place. Sometimes when I give advice to friends and family, I really don't know what to say. If I say something that only makes them feels good, it's not going to help them. But if tell them the truth they'll instantly go nucking futs, and they'll think I'm nucking futs as well. Even though I know they have nothing personal against me, but it actually makes them reject the truth more.

For example, if I tell someone to stop being a victim and they're totally responsible for their misery and there's nobody to blame but themselves. That's stabbing the ego right in the heart, and you can imagine all the defenses and excuses they come up with, and the truth ends up getting thrown straight out the window. This is especially a problem from within my family because they think I worship some insane cult when I'm doing self-actualization work.

So this had led me to think that I'm casting pearls before swine and those low-conscious people don't deserve the truth. But, what's paradoxical about this is that I was just like them before I started my self-actualization work. But somehow I had this urge to seek for solutions not just for myself but my friends as well. So somehow I was different, but in reality I'm really no more different or special from everyone else, yet I deserve the truth but others don't? That doesn't make any sense.

I honestly don't know what's wrong here. Now clearly this is an internal problem, because whatever kind of wrong things I see in other people must be from inside me. If someone can point me in the right direction I would appreciate it.

[Leo Gura]

What's wrong is that the whole world is closedminded and we live in the Dark Ages.

Welcome to the 21st century.

[Joseph Maynor]

It’s not a matter of choosing belief A or B, it’s realizing that this choice is just a low-consciousness cultural game.  People don’t grok this fully while stuck in the Rationalist Paradigm.  They keep looking for beliefs and paradigms to be true.  They don’t realize what the concept of truth is.  They’ve never contemplated that fully.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Nahm]

@hinawashi what is the truth that you are telling them and getting an ill reaction to?

[Spiral]

"Deserve" People deserve whatever they get. 

It's not up to you to pick who deserves what. The only people who deserve to be told are the ones who are. Maybe just semantics for you, but thinking someone does or doesn't deserve something is going to backfire on you. If you think someone does not deserve something you haven't forgiven them for something they have done or is currently doing. 

Now you may not want to help or have someone as a friend of yours but that's a completely different thing. 

P.S. This guy deserve this

 

Edited November 30, 2017 by Spiral

[hinawashi]

@Nahm I just gave an example. If I tell someone who's a victim to stop blaming others and take responsibility for everything, that would like pouring salt on their wounds. @Spiral and I agree that I should stop judging who deserves what.

Hmm... I guess I'll just have to keep everything to myself for now.

[SOUL]

What makes you think you have the pearls and the others are swine?

Although, if you weren't so concerned about how you and what you offer is perceived and received by others you might be at peace with speaking your piece.

Also, you may think you know what they ought to hear but sometimes just hearing them out and being the mirror for them is the most helpful thing, people usually know what they need to hear and we just are there when they realize it.

[Nahm]

@hinawashi they likely have guilt or shame, which leads them feeling helpless. Guilt triggers motivation to correct or amend something we did. Shame is not saying “I did something shitty”, it’s the inner dialogue that “I am a shitty person”. Shame is the worst, it’s just horrible.  Use a story from your past. Like “Yeah, it is hard af sometimes, but I recently learned we’re all somewhere in a process of growth. When I first learned that, I started to feel a little more free, a little more like just one step at a time, one day at a time. I used to beat up on myself for ________ but when I realized I was where I was in my process, I was able to take a baby step for myself, and then another, and another...and these days, I’m feelin pretty good about things - feeling like I can do more, which makes me want to take a little better care of myself. 

You’re feeling  high, and they’re feeling low.     If you use low undesirable words like victim mindset, etc, they internalize it and reinforce their shame. If you refer to yourself using words that are accurate of how great you’re feeling, then you won’t connect, they will feel their lowness relative to your highness. 

So use words to downplay your high a little, no self deprecation, just take the edge off it, when referring to your experiences. Use high words when referencing their current experience. 

I find it works well. It’s sneaky, and there’s some NLP at play, but if the goal is to actually connect and help, and you see you’re up against their ego, well, do what works. 

Disclaimer - I suck at this & and am getting better, but I feel I do understand it. 

[SOUL]

30 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@hinawashi they likely have guilt or shame, which leads them feeling helpless. Guilt triggers motivation to correct or amend something we did. Shame is not saying “I did something shitty”, it’s the inner dialogue that “I am a shitty person”. Shame is the worst, it’s just horrible.  Use a story from your past. Like “Yeah, it is hard af sometimes, but I recently learned we’re all somewhere in a process of growth. When I first learned that, I started to feel a little more free, a little more like just one step at a time, one day at a time. I used to beat up on myself for ________ but when I realized I was where I was in my process, I was able to take a baby step for myself, and then another, and another...and these days, I’m feelin pretty good about things - feeling like I can do more, which makes me want to take a little better care of myself. 

You’re feeling  high, and they’re feeling low.     If you use low undesirable words like victim mindset, etc, they internalize it and reinforce their shame. If you refer to yourself using words that are accurate of how great you’re feeling, then you won’t connect, they will feel their lowness relative to your highness. 

So use words to downplay your high a little, no self deprecation, just take the edge off it, when referring to your experiences. Use high words when referencing their current experience. 

I find it works well. It’s sneaky, and there’s some NLP at play, but if the goal is to actually connect and help, and you see you’re up against their ego, well, do what works. 

Disclaimer - I suck at this & and am getting better, but I feel I do understand it. 

You are so much better at it than I am but I would encourage you to be encouraging to build up others..... /nlp....hehe

[Nahm]

@SOUL and the loop continues! Lol.     I do suck at it though. I’m starting to see it, but still approaching the actuality of contribution. If only it were possible that I could just sit in my comfy chair and the universe would create a way for me to develop such skills without having to even get up.....wait a minute!....

[hinawashi]

@Nahm Thanks a lot! I got it now. So basically how I convey the truth is just as important as the content. I went over to Wikipedia and looked up the difference between guilt and shame and that was exactly it. You just worded it differently and made it easier for me to understand.

@SOUL That's exactly what I said before, I should stop being the judge and just be at peace with everything.

Also when I was reading all the replies, something clicked in my head. I suddenly realized that actually everyone deserves the truth, and I stood correct that I really am no different from anyone else in terms of "deserving" anything. Deserving the truth and willing to accept the truth are two totally different things! It's just like how everyone deserves happiness, and the reason most people are miserable is because they are unwilling to accept happiness.

[Ian]

Sometimes yes, sometimes no, but everybody deserves love

[WaterfallMachine]

Yes, I can relate to seeing it similarly that way before. It can really be frustrating.

To change others, both parties must be willing. To change others beliefs logically — you have to find the root cause of what makes them have disbelief towards your ideas — that you can only figure out by listening to them. As well as provide the ideas to replace these beliefs simply enough — since people resist the more effort it takes to understand.

To change others emotionally — you have to be able to figure out whether they need more toughening or nurturing — then take this into account in action. You already know about toughening but there’s another side to the coin.

Some people change their minds more when they’re communicated the issue slowly, gently, preventing them from running away from the issue entirely — especially when they’re already hard on themselves in other parts of their lives. . .Many people think more rationally when they’re calmer, and a state like that can be reached when they’re given ample time to be listened to, to have their emotions validated and so on.

Yeah, it’s complicated. I have trouble with it too.

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by WaterfallMachine

[Faceless]

If your trying become self actualized that implies that u haven’t yet. If u haven’t then that means u don’t know what it is. And If u haven’t become self realized maybe your not in any position to show another how to become what u have yet to attain. 

Sincelry, it sounds like u are trying to find something immeasurable. If this is so chances are u will change dramatically from day to day. U might be on to something one day thinking your close to your goal, then some form of insight reveals to you a deception that reveals itself. 

I would just pay attention to your thinking. I wouldn’t even bother with guessing or assuming what others are thinking about you. This is the function of thought “ego”. Maybe if your so interested in this “self actualized” business you might not want to fuel what your trying to dissolve.

If u dedicate 100% of your attention to the self and it’s content then your actions will speak for themselves soon enough. 

Freedom “order” has to be in the beginning. It’s not at the end of “self actualized work” 

I would forget this way of thinking that any one of us can grasp what is truth anyhow. Truth is beyond all subjectivity “thoughts, knowledge, time, ego or the self. It is of itself and only when the center and all that implies is not. 

It’s a rare thing to be able to live without the center. But there are moments when we can get a small peak into the imeasurable.

THIS IS ONLY WHEN “WE” ARE NOT 

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Faceless