Feeling stuck in self-inquiry/contemplation

[iTommy]

Hey guys! 

As the title already reveals, it feels like I am stuck when doing self-inquiry. I usually meditate, and during the session I ask questions like "What are my, really? What/who is this "I"? What is the nature of reality/existence?" and so on. So then while asking what I am, thought arises. There isn't really a mental image of an "I", but it usually says "Well, you're the body/brain. If you're not the body, then you're consciousness." So then I keep the awareness on that, only to always realize that this is just thought arising, and the feelings coming with it are also just... feelings. They all occur within awareness. Then I look deeper, only to find nothing, just emptiness. Here the mind thinks of the concept of nothingness, saying "Dude, maybe this is the nothingness, maybe this is you - consciousness, maybe everything just arises out from that." But I then realize too, that this is just a feeling and thought. 

Then, I still tend to still look for a perceiver, some "thing" that perceives the one meditating. Yet, this here is an ego trap as far as I know, thinking that there is someone who perceives. But, I just keep the awareness on that. "What is being aware? What is aware of being aware?" - here the mind comes to conclusions yet again, it's saying, "Well, since you are awareness, it can only be awareness that is being aware of human awareness." 

Apparently you can't find yourself, since there is no you. So the mind also comes up with "Why bother trying to find a perceiver, when you can't find one and when you "know" that you're awareness. Stop seeking enlightenment, because where does this seeking come from? Who/what seeks and wants to "become" enlightened? There is nothing to "achieve", to figure out,  you already are what you seek." 

I always remind myself, that the truth is not hidden, it's quite simple and seekers often tend to tackle this whole thing in a more complicated way than necessary. Now, even when softening the focus, all that I am left with is bodily sensations, thought, feelings, emptiness etc. So, then I also think to myself "Everything that arises, is not you. Everything that you perceive, is not you. Even the awareness of the human being, is just an object occurring within nothingness. So... how the fu** are you/human awareness (or rather focus), even supposed to realize anything when everything that awareness catches isn't you? Even if you feel that you've got it, it's just a feeling occuring within your perception, feelings come and go. 

It's ironic that I put "feeling stuck in the title", isn't it? - It's just a feeling. The feeling of being incomplete, seperated and this ego-self is also just a feeling occuring within awareness. 

"I" am dancing in circles here... and it's pretty darn frustrating, really. I am not sure how to break out of this cycle.

Any thoughts & tips on how to progress?

 

[AlwaysBeNice]

D.: Thoughts suddenly cease and ‘I-I’ rises up equally suddenly and continues. It is only a feeling, not a thought. Can it be right?

Ramana: Yes, it is quite right. Thoughts have to cease and reason to disappear for the ‘I-I’ to rise up and be felt. Feeling is the main thing, not reason.

Edited November 29, 2017 by AlwaysBeNice

[Faceless]

Progress implies a destination. A movement forward or onward in space or time. A common movment of thought which implies time as in becoming. In this case becoming what u have constructed as an achievement, accomplishment, or what has been self projected by thought to be attained. 

If u feel u are like a dog chasing your tail maybe u are. This revolving door feeling is an indicator that there has been a false sense of awarness in action. If there was a sense of emptiness there would be no revolving door in which u were trying enter or exit. U would be outside the realm of thought at that point. 

U seem to be very passionate about learning the movment of thought/time/knowledge which is the structure and nature of the self “ego”.. just keep at it. Don’t get frustrated. This is your journey. Enjoy it. It’s the most important, interesting thing we can learn about. 

There seems to be an unidentified movment takkng place. Thought seems to be deceiving itself at some point in the process. 

Just keep watching the thoughts. Don’t let the “U” distort what is actual in its process. This is very common to all my friend.

Good luck 

 

[Toby]

I would spend time with a teacher and see if that "helps".

[Leo Gura]

@iTommy That's why God invented psychedelics

Clears up all that BS within 60 minutes.

[Serge]

I read yesterday something from OSHO, and he was talking about concentration vs meditation.

When you're looking for a "thing" you're by definition concentrating. You're in the mind. You don't have to look anywhere, that's the point. Just completely relax and concentrate on nothing (don't concentrate). Just let everything pass in. Become open to everything.

 

[Space]

@iTommy I'd say you're getting too lost in concepts. Focus on what is actually occurring in your direct experience at this very moment. Keep grounding yourself in direct experience. What is true in your experience right now? 

There's lots of talk about 'nothingness', 'emptiness' and 'awareness' etc, but these are just concepts you've heard from Leo or read somewhere. You don't actually know what you are. Anything you've heard from someone else is not true. Nor do you really know what any of those concepts (emptiness, nothingness etc) actually point to. I'm not saying you don't understand them intellectually or conceptually, but for the purposes of self-inquiry they don't mean anything and you should discard them. 

Edited November 30, 2017 by Space

[iTommy]

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@iTommy That's why God invented psychedelics

Clears up all that BS within 60 minutes.

Haha true. The last time I took psychedelics "I" had a breakthrough. It might have been an "enlightenment experience", but I am still a bit uncertain if it truly was one. During self-inquiry while on a psychedelic, something just *clicked*. "I" was nothing, but this nothing was also everything, this was then followed by crying and laughter that lasted around 2 hours. It seemed so obvious that I was it all, yet all this time I've been dancing around in circles, not really "getting" it. 

Hell, that was one experience that still makes me a bit emotional when talking/writing about it. The part that I sadly can't really grasp is what happened, I mean... what did really change? Did anything change at all? Here we could say that awareness became aware of itself, yet the mind tries to find a process, some sort of model that lead to this experience. It feels like I had gotten a deep insight about reality, but one that the mind can't really grasp or recall. So I am having trouble integrating it all.

It has been two months since I last took psychedelics, so before I give it another go I'd like to integrate/"understand" the experience to some extent. But... I am not sure if it's possible at all to really understand what was going on. I might just be trying to grasp something, that can't be grasped with the mind. 

Psychedelics can really open the gates, even if those gates create experiences that are a total mindfuck, those experiences inspire/motivate me to go deeper, to explore "reality"/what is.

[iTommy]

3 hours ago, Space said:

@iTommy I'd say you're getting too lost in concepts. Focus on what is actually occurring in your direct experience at this very moment. Keep grounding yourself in direct experience. What is true in your experience right now? 

There's lots of talk about 'nothingness', 'emptiness' and 'awareness' etc, but these are just concepts you've heard from Leo or read somewhere. You don't actually know what you are. Anything you've heard from someone else is not true. Nor do you really know what any of those concepts (emptiness, nothingness etc) actually point to. I'm not saying you don't understand them intellectually or conceptually, but for the purposes of self-inquiry they don't mean anything and you should discard them. 

That's true. The mind really loves concepts, it really wants to label and figure out stuff, but all the stuff that's happening is rooted in perceptions. I am practising to let go of all concepts and ideas, because those are just... concepts & ideas, and not really what "I" am. The mind really loves to play its own game of deception.

[Faceless]

It’s seems reasonable to say that psychedelics are a temporary fix. It’s also an experience that u will probably propetualy chase. Also its safe to say that the experience “memory of that experience” will be what you approach each present moment with. So u will be approaching the present in terms of the  past “the memory/knowledge of that experience” . This is classic meeting the present according to the past or “ approaching the dynamic, active, “the now” with that which is “static” the past. If we approach the new “the now” with that of the old “past” then we really aren’t living now. We are living according to past knowledge and remain a slave to thought. 

Anyway im not saying u shouldn’t or should just something to keep in mind. If u want to go about it with chemical changes to the body and so on so be it. But it’s reasonable to assume that it takes more than tripping balls to learn the art of inquiry. 

Remeber care must be taken to avoid various deceptions and so on. If imagination is going crazy I don’t see how this could be possible. 

Then again I’m not sure what psychedelics actually make u feel like. I do this without the dependency of any outside agency. For me this is an art. The art of living. 

Good luck ??