Ending Suffering Forever (if it's possible)

[Revolutionary Think]

My father said that if life was fair it wouldn't have started with crying. It's like somehow babies know that existence is going to suck somehow. Existence itself as crazy as it is (and after watching a lot of actualized.org videos) seems like a scam. I don't remember my non-existence and I don't remember myself suffering in my non-existence. I think there are different kinds of suffering that affect you in different sorts of ways. The first suffering I think we experience is the suffering of pain because at young enough of an age we don't really know or understand relationships. This suffering is I think the easiest to understand physical pain comes from getting hurt. Other than physical pain the only other suffering I can think of is the one Buddha talked about. Having some kind of relationship to something whether it's a person, animal, idea, dogma, and/or material and losing that relationship for example losing the material, the idea that you based the way of living your life being false, and losing the relationship to that person or animal whether they decided to run away, end the relationship, or they died. 

@Leo Gura Could you possibly know that the only way to end this suffering. Is it only through death and/or enlightenment (I say and/or because you said in one of your videos enlightened masters are already dead). You know it kinda reminds me of video games. Long time ago when I was in 5th grade I played a game Final Fantasy 9 and in this game there was a crystal that gave life/existence to the Universe the villain of the game found out that he was not immortal and was going to die at any time. In his narcissism he wanted to destroy the crystal and end all of life because if he didn't exist he didn't want anything else to exist either. His destroying of the crystal gave birth to an entity who's purpose was to end all existence. This entity told the hero's of the game his theory. Basically he thought he was a noble entity and without any life and everything being returned to the "zero world" there would be no more suffering so returning the Universe to the "zero world" was noble. In the end of the game the hero's managed to defeat the entity and life went on. Although I couldn't help but, thinking what that entity said rang true in some sense. In another video game which you may all know Halo, in that game the flood is the scourge of the Universe it's some disgusting parasite that takes over planets. The only way to stop it is to activate Halo but, activating Halo means the destruction of the Universe. 

Sometimes even the fear of death may be much more suffering than death itself. My poor uncle had cancer and knew he was going to pass away but, didn't know when and his suffering caused me suffering because I didn't want him to suffer. I'm looking at it in a different way though how about if death is like a hair cut. I don't know if you people can understand this but, your hair is attached to your body and you think that anything attached to your body when you cause harm to it it's painful. Although when you clip your nails and you cut your hair the pain isn't there but, when you clip your finger or cut out a piece of your scalp you will feel pain. So I can only hope that death is like that hair cut and not like getting your teeth drilled by a dentist. I'm wondering if some people have managed to end their suffering for good and if so what steps did they take and what practices did they implement. I am willing to do whatever is necessary to achieve this result. I know it's not going to be easy but, I do know it'll be a worthy investment.  

Edited November 26, 2017 by Revolutionary Think
spelling mistake

[vizual]

If your father is convinced that life sucks and it's all about suffering. Why did he put you on this world, and just end his life already? Let's put it broader, if everyone's life is all about suffering. Why haven't we come to a consensus to just blow up the world and end all the suffering? That would be the most noble and logical thing to do. Like a dog with terminal cancer that got hit by a truck while trying to pass the road. It's only compassionate to end its life, without much pain.

But do you think life is really about that? Do you think we are all sick dogs that secretly want to put down to end all the misery? Maybe you do think that. But that says something about your own current state of mind.

Remember when you were a kid and you had fun all the time. Just exploring, discovering and creating. And when you fell and you bruised your knee; you cried for a bit, wiped your tears and then you went right back to exploring, discovering and creating. Life can be that way as an adult too. Joyful, without worry.

Like Ramana said; retrace your steps back to your source and you will find the bliss again.

 

[Revolutionary Think]

Let's get one thing straight I am not my father and I didn't say that I thought life was all about suffering. I'm just thinking of ways people can come up with to end suffering. I myself am very disappointed in my father for a number of reasons. He made a lot of promises to me that he ended up breaking and lives life like a robot just going through the motions. I remember as a kid that I had hopes and dreams and in one moment in my life I was in a very dark and displeasing place. I was going through some severe depression but, I got over it. The question is though how do I make sure something like that doesn't happen again if I could help it. Some things our out of our control like tornadoes and earthquakes. Although the things that are in our control like raising children sometimes people do a really terrible job that leads to extremely terrible outcomes. 

You need to ask those questions on why my dad put me into this world to him not to me. I don't plan on having any children myself in fact if anything I am planning on adopting and becoming a voice for people who are suffering and people who need help. Of course there are many amazing and interesting things to do in this world where we find happiness and bliss but, I don't think it gives people the right to neglect people who are suffering. Case and point I'm sure that when all the Jews were suffering in the concentration camps the Nazis and their collaborators were having a good time. I'm sure that while some people live in their mega mansions and use up all the worlds resources they are as happy as can be while other people starve. I'm not saying I have a solution I'm just saying I ponder these things from time to time. Speaking of the world blowing up it has happened before in Japan and all it takes is one psycho to end the lives of unsuspecting people especially when they are in bliss and having a good time like that shooter in Las Vegas who killed those concert goers. 

The way you responded to my post shows a lot of strong emotions. I think a better idea is instead to really think about what I said and think about this in a more non-egoic and non-emotional way. I am currently studying a book called Political Ponerology that talks about the origins of psychopathy and such. It talks about how people who have no conscience get into positions of power and from there they mess everyone else's psyche up as well and cause irreparable amounts of suffering to thousands and in some cases millions of people. I think that humanities best bet is to stop these psychopathic people as best we can to create a society with less suffering. Immunize ourselves from these psychos. 

[BjarkeT]

 

it might help with the suffering part but it doesn't eliminate pain forever (still really useful) 

[Ascend]

Life is about duality, contrast, polarity. There is both joy/suffering. Good and bad. The contrast is for our benefit. It is there to help you choose what you prefer, and use the context to experience more of your preference.

[vizual]

24 minutes ago, Ascend said:

Life is about duality, contrast, polarity. There is both joy/suffering. Good and bad. The contrast is for our benefit. It is there to help you choose what you prefer, and use the context to experience more of your preference.

Nope, you are phrasing it wrong. Yes there is joy and suffering, but these things are not tied to the outer experience. Pain and pleasure are tied to the outer experience. You can experience pain and suffer, you can also experience pain and be joyful. On the flipside; you can experience pleasure and suffer, you can also experience pleasure and be joyful.

Remember; Suffering = pain x resistance. Or to simplify even more; Suffering = resistance regardless of circumstance. It is possible to lead a life without suffering, it's not possible to lead a life without pain. Pain comes with the human experience, but that's not a bad thing. Without pain there is no pleasure, just like you said. But it's not true that you need to suffer to experience joy.

Edited November 26, 2017 by vizual

[Leo Gura]

@Revolutionary Think You know it's very interesting. If the woman gives birth to the baby in a totally dark environment with no artificial lights and noises, no hospital staff and doctors, no drugs, no surgical equipment, the baby will be born without crying. It will not cry for days until something spooks it, like a sudden loud noise or a knock on the head.

Our society is so fucked up that as soon as you are born, it's already a neurotic dysfunction in the making: doctors poking you, shining stadium lighting in your eyes, making stupid noises at you, putting you into plastic boxes. And people just assume that's the only way life can be.

Watch out what you assume. You just might get it.

[Revolutionary Think]

@Leo Gura Any citations or references for that? 

[Leo Gura]

@Revolutionary Think Peter Ralston told me that's how his daughter was born. He said she didn't cry for a week until he accidentally slammed the door.

There's a whole book written about dark births by some doctor. Can't remember the name, sorry.

[Revolutionary Think]

OK that's fine anyway that's not my main concern. My main concern is the ending suffering part of the post

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Revolutionary Think said:

OK that's fine anyway that's not my main concern. My main concern is the ending suffering part of the post

The only way to end suffering is to die. I highly recommend doing so. It's really the damnedest thing.

[MM1988]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The only way to end suffering is to die. I highly recommend doing so. It's really the damnedest thing.

I would be very careful with that wording on a forum where a lot of young users with emotional problems are around.

Edited November 27, 2017 by MM1988

[Leo Gura]

I don't mean physical suicide of course.

[Revolutionary Think]

I was afraid that would be the answer. Although I did kind of allude to it in my original post. In that case how do we overcome the fear of death? So it appears that Necron was right... "All life bears death from birth. Life fears death but, lives only to die. It Starts with Anxiety. Anxiety becomes fear. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. The only cure for the fear is total destruction (not saying I agree with Necron here). In a world of nothing fear does not exist. This is a world that all life desires." Anyway...

I guess enlightenment is death with out actually dying? Instead of suicide I guess it's killing all of your desires with out the desires there is nothing to cling on to and nothing to cause you suffering when you don't have it. Including friends and family. Including parts of your body and any ideas you hold on to as "facts" and "truths". 

The thing is that we as humanity are trying so hard to avoid the void. Instead of avoiding the void why not get comfortable with the void and embrace the void. I guess a way of not avoiding the void is meditation. At a young age I always thought that death means eternal darkness. I had this idea of death in my head as blackness that I am staring at and it's just my thoughts surrounded by this darkness for the rest of eternity and that scared me a lot. Then again that can't be true because these thoughts would have to be coming from somewhere. Well in one video you said we don't spend a lot of time contemplating and we are trying to manipulate things around us. Well in this instance I am not doing that and genuinely trying to understand this "void" so I can get comfortable and accept it. I'm also wondering if there is anything to be learned from Near Death Experiences https://www.near-death.com/science/research/void.html. So the more time we spend alone doing absolutely nothing I'm wondering if that is the best chance we have to not fear death as much as we do (or at least I do). 

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Revolutionary Think said:

I guess enlightenment is death with out actually dying?

No, it's ACTUAL dying. It's just that your paradigm shifts so much that you realize you were dead the whole time.

The way to face that fear is with an overwhelming trust in Truth. You surrender to Truth until reality collapses and you just die. At the moment of death, you discover Nirvana. A peace and stillness the likes of which no human mind can imagine. It kills you with its beauty. It is infinite peace.

Try to grasp it right now! You -- the thing which is conscious of all experience -- is death. You're dead right now. You just don't realize it. Death is conscious of life. Take a close look, if you dare

[Revolutionary Think]

Like the answer in the quora question https://www.quora.com/Do-enlightened-people-die-before-their-death  

[Revolutionary Think]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You're dead right now.

Or one can call death eternal life when looking at it from a perspective of non-duality  

 

[RichardY]

"Take her into the fetus frightening room." "That's the machine that goes PING, it means your baby is still alive!"

 

There are no more barriers to cross. All I have in common with the uncontrollable and the insane, the vicious and the evil, all the mayhem I have caused and my utter indifference toward it, I have now surpassed. I still, though, hold on to one single bleak truth: no one is safe, nothing is redeemed. Yet I am blameless. Each model of human behavior must be assumed to have some validity. Is evil something you are? Or is it something you do? My pain is constant and sharp and I do not hope for a better world for anyone. In fact, I want my pain to be inflicted on others. I want no one to escape. But even after admitting this—and I have countless times, in just about every act I’ve committed—and coming face-to-face with these truths, there is no catharsis. I gain no deeper knowledge about myself, no new understanding can be extracted from my telling. There has been no reason for me to tell you any of this. This confession has meant nothing….” 
― Bret Easton Ellis, American Psycho

[Shin]

Want to stop suffering ?

Take a 1 week vacation, stay all day in your sofa just being totally mindful of your monkey mind.

That's it.

[Ranz Kafka]

@Leo Gura

But, how do you gain that "overwhelming trust in TRUTH"? 

I took 300ug al-lad 4 weeks ago. It feels like I actually had an ego death, but reemerged with a terrified, fighting ego, because my sitter directly engaged me in a conversation and I projected onto him beeing my executioner. It took me 4 weeks of all day flashbacks now to realize, that I don't have to commit suicide and I just have to focus on processing those feelings/energies. With this retraumatisation my trust in TRUTH is quiet shattered now...but I want to get fully back on the path. HOW?

(trip report in progress)