Why mostly depressed people search for Enlightenment?!

[egoless]

@Leo Gura However, that does not change the fact that many Enlightened people have experienced some degree of depression in their lives. I don't know whether you have been depressed or not or what do you consider as depression. However, I know from your videos that you struggled a lot during your early years to integrate, socialize and fighting excess weight as you call it. I don't know your experience. The only thing I can say for sure is about myself. I have been always curious about existence and my true nature. Those were the main questions for me ever since I could think rationally.

P.S. Don't judge everyone from your perspective. What may be the most beautiful thing for you may not be for another.   

Edited November 23, 2017 by egoless

[Leo Gura]

@egoless You are over-generalizing. I bet you haven't even met 5 enlightened people in your life.

Rather than speculating about nonsense, go do the work.

This sloppy way of thinking and speculating about reality is the whole problem. You are wrapped up in mental fictions.

[Ether]

@Leo Gura Dont speculate Leo, that brings problems and judgements homie

[egoless]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

@egoless You are over-generalizing. I bet you haven't even met 5 enlightened people in your life.

Rather than speculating about nonsense, go do the work.

This sloppy way of thinking and speculating about reality is the whole problem. You are wrapped up in mental fictions.

You are speculating about how many Enlightened people I met in my life so...  

What do you offer me to not question everything? That's how I am. I don't follow anything blindly. While I still do the work, because I see logic in it. You in your videos always endorse questioning everything.

[nick96]

33 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

A fool will only learn through suffering. The reason most people do anything is because they want to escape suffering. Anything from losing wieght to buying a new computer.

The key to life is to be conscious enough to motivate yourself into action without life having to kick you in the ass.

You need to learn how to change from negative to positive motivation. Otherwise your life will be miserable and mediocre. 

@Leo Gura

for some people , there is no other way than suffering.

No kind of positive motivation is possible, all hope is put on getting to a deeper state of being, a deeper truth beyond the current existence.

This is the case if you have your entire ego built over a huge childhood trauma. Such a person cannot use any kind of positive motivation. He must go on surrending to what is , having faith that there is something better on the other side, yet unknown.

This person will definitely go through depression and so facing suffering will be the only way out and the way to truth. 

Edited November 23, 2017 by nick96

[nick96]

@Leo Gura

Edited November 23, 2017 by nick96

[LaucherJunge]

@egoless
To be honest, my thoughts on the whole enlightenment thing are that it is very highly overrated, depending on what you would classify as enlightenment of course.
I am pretty sure there could be people getting enlightened who still have so much crap in their head and a very long way to go, the true beauty is the spiritual path to enlightenment itself, because it lets you automatically work on so many different areas for a better quality of living, making your experience even as a seperate self really beautiful. I am not really as much excited for enlightenment as for what comes after enlightenment, when I got 99% of all the crap gone and have the direct permanent experience, how deep can you actually go with both of those things combined? How many dimensions are there to discover? How beautiful must life be when you reach states that are way beyond enlightenment? It is so beautiful to know that there are literally no limits, you can reach states which you can't even dream of as the most enlightened master that ever existed, that is the beauty of infinity and our illusory limitations.

[ZX_man]

7 hours ago, Arman said:

Then depression has been overcome and well-being is stabilized I think a more authentic search begins  

Unless the subject is so relieved to have overcome depression that they are OK living whatever life rather than continue searching for truth.

[Zephyr]

7 hours ago, egoless said:

But there is the problem. If you find out yourself you may be trapped into that false realization and think that finally you understand it - Finally! You got Enlightened! And nobody will be able to proove you that it is just another product of shift in your brain chemistry!

Oh no I was thinking that I am already enlightened. All along I might be wrong hmmm this made me think that there might be a slight posibility that I am not enligtened. I mean I'm pretty sure I'm enlightened tho

[Natasha]

I would say, one of the reasons and a more common one. 

[Echoes]

@Leo Gura God/Reality/infinite creation itself is the fool then. It's not like there is a person inside of this infinite creation that is somehow not appreciating the generous opportunities it was given - It's reality itself who is pissing itself off. I mean, why would there be suffering at all? like, at ALL?! 

[pluto]

You must know Darkness to Know Light. A seed must be sown in darkness, in dirt, mud, clay and struggle to reach the Light. Once it has sprouted, a whole new world is seen

[Leo Gura]

37 minutes ago, Echoes said:

@Leo Gura God/Reality/infinite creation itself is the fool then. It's not like there is a person inside of this infinite creation that is somehow not appreciating the generous opportunities it was given - It's reality itself who is pissing itself off. I mean, why would there be suffering at all? like, at ALL?! 

Yes, of course. Infinity plays the role of many fools. It's hard to create a universe without fools. God himself couldn't do it 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, nick96 said:

@Leo Gura

for some people , there is no other way than suffering.

Of course. For most people there is no way at all. Which is why so few are enlightened.

If suffering is your path, that's fine with me.

[Natasha]

It's interesting that the Buddha got awakened by witnessing the suffering of others. So it seems that suffering can lead to disillusionment either way. 

[egoless]

hello

Edited November 24, 2017 by egoless

[Shanmugam]

Four noble truths of Buddhism:

1) Life is suffering (a mundane human life is prone to suffering) or dissatisfaction

2)Craving is the cause of suffering (wishing things to be different from the way they are, for example)

3)Cessation of suffering is possible

4)Noble eight fold path is a way to end suffering

Thats it! This is the essence of  what Buddha taught!

@egoless Buddha didn't ask anyone to believe in anything; At the same time he said that you should trust that spiritual path will work. Trust is the right word here, rather than belief. Buddha listed 'doubt in eight fold path' as one of the fetters or obstacles for enlightenment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetter_(Buddhism)

The same concept is also there is Vedanta. Shraddha (faith in the path) is one of the prerequisites to spiritual practice.

So yes, even though you don't have to believe in anything, you still need to trust that the path will work.. There is no other way. When there is doubt, you can't engage in spiritual practice with full involvement or dedication...

People search for cessation of suffering as soon as they realize the underlying dissatisfaction in life. This is what happened to Buddha. Buddha's dad provided him with all the pleasures of life and made sure that he never hears about anyone falling sick or dying. Because, some astrologers told Buddha's dad that he may become a monk in the future. So, his dad made sure that the thought of becoming a monk never enters his mind. Buddha obviously got enough of pleasures in life. One day he witnessed a dead body, sick man and and ill man which he had never seen before. Once he saw all that, he understood that suffering is completely unavoidable. He renounced everything for enlightenment and left his palace.

Let me tell you something; there is nothing called truth of universe or secret of reality that you will discover just because you are enlightened. The word 'truth' in the context of enlightenment has been completely misunderstood and distorted, which makes a lot of people to fool themselves. No matter how much you try, 99% of secrets of universe cannot be known. That is existence.  universe is so vast, so huge. Even our planet earth looks like a small dot when you see it from pluto, Imagine about all the galaxies of the universe! Existence is a mystery. As Osho said 'life is not a problem to be solved but  a mystery to be lived'..

Buddha didn't give a damn about the secrets of universe or origin of universe. check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_Silence .  

Looks like a lot of people in the forum are more enlightened that Buddha. If people are in the pursuit of knowing the so called truth of reality, then good luck. .

When Vedanta says absolute truth, it is not talking about some secret, a mystical knowledge, seeing visions, UFOs, aliens f**king each other etc... It is talking about something self-evident, something so close right now, this very minute.. It is talking about the witness, which remains constant. That is the definition of reality, that which doesn't change.

This word 'truth' has been misunderstood and distorted by fake gurus who just wanted to gain money, power and followers. Every human being has a little bit of fantasy prone personality. Some people have that trait more than others. I am also one of the people who had such a fantasy prone personality. There was a time when i honestly believed i had psychic powers. By the way, whether psychic powers are real or not is not the point; it is irrelevant to enlightenment.

If you are curious about the secrets behind the universe or interested in psychic powers, that's fine.. but that is not the search for enlightenment. That is just a curiosity of a typical human mind. There is nothing wrong in it. It is fun, interesting but it is not related to spiritual path.

Enlightenment is the longing for fulfillment. after enlightenment, you actually feel boundless. It is experiential. You don't feel like you are shrunk or diminished in anyway. you don't feel like there is something that is lacking. There is absolute acceptance, peace and it is seriously, honestly indescribable.There is absolutely NO way to imagine how it feels, if you are still living in the duality. It is very simple, natural, authentic, conflict-less, guilt free and innocent way of experiencing the reality. You become a kid again!

[Geromekevin]

@egoless First of all I got to say this could be confirmation bias. Maybe it just feels to you like mostly depressed people look for enlightenment, you would need to have actual data to make that statement. But I gotta say I think that assumption is true.

If you study the psychology of persuasion and hypnosis, it will give your an interesting answer.
The ground assumption of these sciences is that humans are irrational and can't understand reality. We never see reality as it is. We have evolved to survive not to see reality.
With this in mind look at spirituality. People who are depressed are often depressed, because they don't live up to their or societies core values.
Spirituality gives you an out for that. It says that societies values don't matter and gives you the excuse to accept yourself the way you are.

So in through the filter of persuasion and hypnosis spirituality/ enlightment is just another wrong way to look at reality. Another model humans use. And for some people it has the benefit to raise their mood / their overall feelings, so they continue to survive and reproduce.

[Shin]

After all this mental masturbation, I only have one thing to say.

DO THE WORK.

 It's worth 99999999999 more than the emotional labor you put into it.

 

Your face 99% of the day in one year:

 

 

[AlwaysBeNice]

 

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

A fool will only learn through suffering. The reason most people do anything is because they want to escape suffering. Anything from losing wieght to buying a new computer.

The key to life is to be conscious enough to motivate yourself into action without life having to kick you in the ass.

I was never depressed. I do this work because it's the most beautiful thing to do. For me, understanding reality is the greatest reward of being alive. Nothing else compares. And this has nothing to do with escaping suffering.

You need to learn how to change from negative to positive motivation. Otherwise your life will be miserable and mediocre. Doing the bare minimum is not how life ought to be lived.

Living to escape suffering is just so boring. If that was my life, I would rather kill myself. You have this INFINITE creation to take part in, and all you can imagine to do is live to escape suffering???

From what I've seen all masters got where they are because they admitted all their suffering and they worked to end it, and they are the happiest people alive.

In my view, you are not done, and hiding behind intellectual ego ideas and projecting on people who disagree with you.