Why mostly depressed people search for Enlightenment?!

[Dodo]

12 minutes ago, egoless said:

@Dodo that only strengthens my suspicions. And it should yours as well. When you are in trouble you are more exposed to biases and false realizations which supposadly will bring you liberation. Think about it. 

You begin to seek liberation so desperately that you may even change your whole brain chemistry with false ideas...

I see it differently. The way I see it is that those who do not suffer, are happy. There is no higher state than happiness. Those that are happy have already arrived. But for how long? 

Enlightenment is about the transmutation of pain into Gold. No need to transform the Gold (pleasure) into Gold, it is already it. 

My take

Given this view, it is even good to seek for the pain sometimes. To dive in with courage. To test your Enlightenment (transmutational power) 

Edited November 23, 2017 by Dodo

[Dodo]

3 minutes ago, egoless said:

But there is the problem. If you find out yourself you may be trapped into that false realization and think that finally you understand it - Finally! You got Enlightened! And nobody will be able to proove you that it is just another product of shift in your brain chemistry!

Who cares? It's all subjective. What's important is the experience, not how you label it. 

[egoless]

There is a chance that we are all here deluded including Leo Gura. Why nobody here is considering that there is the chance?! That alerts me very much... we need to be more critical. Leo you need to be more critical towards Enlightenment...

[Dodo]

7 minutes ago, egoless said:

There is a chance that we are all here deluded including Leo Gura. Why nobody here is considering that there is the chance?! That alerts me very much... we need to be more critical. Leo you need to be more critical towards Enlightenment...

The voice of Ego is one of urgency and doubt. Listen to the silence of your body right now. Can you focus on it with no thought? If you can't you have no control over your thoughts and I am speaking to an Ego called Egoless (perfect disguise!).

Has the stillness ever lied to you @egoless, has the isness ever lied? The only one that can lie is thought, the Ego. Isness cannot lie, it is simply true. Being is truth. It's absolutely continuous. Can silence lie to you? Sound can lie, silence cannot lie. Look for the silence, not for the noise!! You're nurturing the Noise! Sometimes me too - like now. 

Edited November 23, 2017 by Dodo

[Nahm]

@Shiva I love the richness those ‘dollars’ crack open.

[Dodo]

39 minutes ago, egoless said:

But there is the problem. If you find out yourself you may be trapped into that false realization and think that finally you understand it - Finally! You got Enlightened! And nobody will be able to proove you that it is just another product of shift in your brain chemistry!

@egoless I have linked this video from the 14th minute. These words directly answer to your worries here.

[Nahm]

@egoless you’re trying to get to where he is, he’s giving you directions, and you’re not listening. You’re talking. I love you. Love & light. Lol.

[phoenix666]

@egoless but thinking about it won't take you anywhere. it's just more theorizing. 

I only know that, not even my life, but my whole perspective on the world has changed since I've been on this path. so even if this is all just another trap, and of course, I have to take that in consideration, I still am happy to pursue enlightenment. until now it really has shifted my life from hate, depression, judgement, self-loathing, victimhood to acceptance, love, service, humbleness and calmness. 

[Natasha]

1 hour ago, egoless said:

There is a chance that we are all here deluded including Leo Gura. Why nobody here is considering that there is the chance?! That alerts me very much... we need to be more critical. Leo you need to be more critical towards Enlightenment...

Direct experience would get this matter resolved. 

 

Edited November 23, 2017 by Natasha

[Monkey-man]

i agree, as far as i see 90% of spiritual seekers are depressed neurotic introverts like myself

on the other hand, i know see that my whole life, since childhood, i was naturally leaning towards spirituality in order to get answers no one provided, but every time i wasn't doing it right until leo gura came into my life  

also i see here a simple pattern - if you are happy and spontaneous then probably you are aligned with your own nature, i.e. you are in tune with god even if you're complete atheist. but if you are unhappy then its a sign you are not in tune with god

[Shin]

1 hour ago, Shiva said:

Now the only question is how much can I raise it?

This question assumes there is a limit, and you can't know that:

Apparently, in most cases, it goes like this:

1. Ego Realization: Realization that your thoughts are not you, that you are the watcher aware of them. (made up this one lul).
2. Self-Realization: Realization that there is no "you" as a separate entity, and that reality has no substance whatsoever.
3. God-Realization: Realization that you are one with everything, of infinity, and arising of unconditional love.
4. Apparently there is a stage where you merge so fully with life that you don't even feel like you're doing anything, it goes totally on auto pilot
5. ...

The later stagse might be so abstract and so deep, that it could not even be possible to express it with words, that could explain why there isn't so much information about it, or maybe because so few people attained it.

Leo has said he will do an episode about that, so I guess there is more about it, I admit I didn't do an intensive research   

[egoless]

1 hour ago, Natasha said:

Direct experience would get this matter resolved. 

 

I have had these experiences you are talking about and not a single one. I can sit for an hour with the still mind - close to 0 thought. Why so many of you here assume that you know my current progress? I still question everything and I recommend you to do so. Nobody knows yet what is human brain capable of. There have been numerous miraculous cases when human brain completely altered whole body chemistry. Thus the experience as well...

Edited November 23, 2017 by egoless

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, Natasha said:

Direct experience would get this matter resolved. 

 

 

[egoless]

8 minutes ago, egoless said:

I have had these experiences you are talking about and not a single one. I can sit for an hour with the still mind - close to 0 thought. Why so many of you here assume that you know my current progress? I still question everything and I recommend you to do so. Nobody knows yet what is human brain capable of. There have been numerous miraculous cases when human brain completely altered whole body chemistry. Thus the experience as well...

 

[Preetom]

Due to karma or whatever, some people have some sort of built in 'wisdom' from their birth. These people seem to see the folly of 'consumption'. Nothing in this world seem to satisfy them. So...after years/decades of running around like a hungry ghost...desperately trying to fill the inner void with objects and ideologies..and failing countless times..they finally give in to the path of enlightenment.

On the other hand, rest of the people take the carnal cravings as their highest priority in life and they chase after them...not seeing/admitting the folly of them..until their death approaches and there is really nothing left to do.

So yeah, enlightenment does take an ounce of spiritual wisdom to initiate the path. If all your cravings and curiosity ends with the pleasure and pains of life, then there is no room for a possibility of enlightenment.

[egoless]

2 minutes ago, Preetom said:

Due to karma or whatever, some people have some sort of built in 'wisdom' from their birth. These people seem to see the folly of 'consumption'. Nothing in this world seem to satisfy them. So...after years/decades of running around like a hungry ghost...desperately trying to fill the inner void with objects and ideologies..and failing countless times..they finally give in to the path of enlightenment.

On the other hand, rest of the people take the carnal cravings as their highest priority in life and they chase after them...not seeing/admitting the folly of them..until their death approaches and there is really nothing left to do.

So yeah, enlightenment does take an ounce of spiritual wisdom to initiate the path. If all your cravings and curiosity ends with the pleasure and pains of life, then there is no room for a possibility of enlightenment.

I relate to the first type. I always have been in search for answers. And I always have been depressed because I was not sure whether this life was real or not. Even since my early teens. That;s why Matrix has been always my favorite movie. But that does not mean that this makes Enlightenment the Truth. It can be, however it also can be just another delusion which seems damn so real.

[egoless]

@Shiva I mean what if "True Enlightenment" itself is yet another deception. Which means that belief so strong that it alters brain chemistry thus making it into a special experience of knowing.

[egoless]

8 minutes ago, Shiva said:

I love it that you're digging deeper and deeper. This post is like a collective contemplation

If enlightenment in fact was just another deception then there also must be way to not be deceived by it. Perhaps that's the ultimate stage.

Maybe you will realize that after all, enlightenment was the biggest illusion. And then perhaps this is the biggest mindfuck of all and your whole world turns upside down in a matter of seconds and then... actually become enlightened...

Ultimately I don't know. The only way to find out is by actually getting rid of all the deceptions until only that one is left. 

You cannot know where the journey will end before you haven't even started.

However imagine, in that case the mindfuck would be so huge that you will doom yourself for whole your life chasing yet another biggest delusion. That is sort of double mindfuck you are preparing for yourself in that case. First one is when you discovered the Enlightenment path and the second one would be when you finally attain that knowing after living 10 years like zen monk. And then... you discover that that was just another, more deluded illusion. This time your brain chemistry trolled you like a little baby.

And than you look at your friends who partied and lived their lives at fullest without caring where and why it goes to. And finally who knows, both of you just reincarnated in another lifetime. 1:0 for your current lifetime.

Edited November 23, 2017 by egoless

[egoless]

 

[egoless]

@Shiva Yes but exploring Enlightenment requires you immense amount of abstaining from everyday life and becoming disciplined practitioner. What if instead it is wiser to continue experiencing life as it was gifted and intended initially. To explore it as your separate self, with perspective on it rather then completely dissolving yourself in nothingness.