You have 100% free will and you also have no free will. The other side of the Paradox.

[AxelK]

21 hours ago, AleksM said:

You are always in control of how you view a situation.

So you have to deconstruct the subjective construct by bring yourself back into the now, to become fully conscious. When you are fully conscious you are in neutral zone and then you can redefine your experience by looking at it differently. How you look at things is ALWAYS in your control.

 

This is literally the opposite of true. How you view a situation is dependent on several factors which are beyond "your"(lol) control. You don't choose the thoughts that affect how you view a situation. You dont choose the neurochemistry that affects your state of mind. You dont choose if your brain(which is what you observe reality through) understand how to handle a situation properly. All these are factors which control how you view a situation and look at life.  There is no "you" that controls how you view the world. Just look at society, you really think people control how they view the world? Everyones brain is affected by millions of years of evolutionary psychology that affects every little decision you take. Even the most enlightened masters don't have this myth of free will, if they even become enlightened is a stroke of luck which is beyond their control. And giving up this false sense of control is what you have to do to move forward, not try to reinforce it. I didn't choose the thoughts or state of mind that made me write these exact sentences, it's a result of millions of different factors coming together at once. And if you actually managed to use some supernatural abilities to choose the thoughts that made you write this text, then how did that happen?

Quote

You are creator, that means you have power to create. You have to find out how to access this power, not just to find knowledge about how to access it, but to actually prove it to yourself that you have the ability to manifest,

The body is running unconsciously, the vessel is asleep. You have to bring consciousness back into the vessel so you can step back into full power.

These are all good things to believe, because a growth mindset will help you in the long run. It doesnt make it true though. I agree that bringing a higher state of consciousness into your vessel will give you a sense of more power and free will, but it will still be an illusion. What is the one thing that actually makes someone able to bring this consciousness into themselves versus someone who doesnt? Is it this free will, or is it just a different kind of circumstance along with a different person? My bet is on the latter.

[Ascend]

You're obviously not enlightened, I'm sure you've had some enlightenment experiences. An easy giveaway is your intellectual analysis/discussion. An easy way is that no one enlightened would ever claim they're enlightened. Don't fall into the ego trap of spiritual trap. Just because I've had 100 experiences/glimpses of enlightenment and can talk about it, doesn't mean I am. Far from it. 

[AleksM]

@Serotoninluv When I use the word You, with the capital letter, I mean the True Self, Being, Soul, Consciousness - all the same.

When I use the lower case letter you, I am pointing to the ego, to the self, you believe yourself to be.

You have to be wise to discern between the two, if you are still low in consciousness and awareness then you can't properly understand what I'm talking about. I do my best to not cause confusion and use the words You and you properly. These two words are the same, but point to different things. What those two words are pointing to you have to find out for yourself. Words are just pointers.

@Ascend Read the 2 threads below:

 

@mp22  Of course the brain exists lol. We can call it whatever, but it is our collective agreement that we call it the brain. So why not use the word brain. We are doing it all the time for all the things so it doesn't matter. Map and the territory are not the same. The brain is not the mind. The brain is just the grounding platform for the mind. 

@Psyche_92 I am in what most people would consider automatic meditation mode all the time, so yea, it doesn't matter if I meditate or not, I don't notice any difference between sitting meditation and the rest of the day. Most days I don't do sitting meditation, I am meditating all the time, it doesn't matter. But telling you this will not help you at all. Only after you get enlightened you will understand what I mean by this. 

 

@Principium Nexus The environment shapes the ego. This is true. But acting in an enlightened way is beyond what most would consider learned behavior. It is direct communion with a rhythm that is not perceivable, and cannot be shaped into a perception, it is beyond perception. All the things from the environment shape the perception, but consciousness is beyond perception. When I became enlightened I started acting in way that my mind had no clue how to articulate, I was doing things like I knew stuff not like I needed to shape the perception first before I acted. I was doing stuff and I didn't understand why but looking back I know that I did the best thing possible. It takes a lot of time to shape the perception, and now after a few years I can better articulate what I was doing after enlightenment. Very hard to put it into words. It's like a higher intelligence channels into the body and just knows what to do. That is beyond intellect. It took me a lot of time for my intellect to fully grasp what I was doing. That's why I have mentioned in the first few lines of the first post that I still need to create a good map for the territory.  

The ego has no free will. Most people identify with the ego and so they are trapped in the illusion of free will. Only after you become enlightened you truly know what free will is. So yea, You have free will, and you don't.

@Monkey-man Thanks for mentioned what Sadhguru said. It is true. What this means is that after you realize what you are, you also realize what free will is. Ego has no free will. Most people identify with the ego, and so they THINK they have free will. But free will has them, haha. 

 

[Shin]

15 minutes ago, Ascend said:

You're obviously not enlightened, I'm sure you've had some enlightenment experiences. An easy giveaway is your intellectual analysis/discussion. An easy way is that no one enlightened would ever claim they're enlightened. Don't fall into the ego trap of spiritual trap. Just because I've had 100 experiences/glimpses of enlightenment and can talk about it, doesn't mean I am. Far from it. 

Are you ?

If you are then you're still wasting time arguing on internet instead of helping others.

If you're not, then this kinds of quote wars is a huge waste of time, time that you could use to works towards it.

[Forestluv]

@AleksM Generally the statement “you have no free will” refers to the lowercase y.

when you say “you have 100% free will” are you referring to the lower or uppercase you? I think it is pretty clear Leo refers to lowercase you in his video.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Serotoninluv

[AleksM]

@Serotoninluv  I refer to the upper case You. Yes I know that now, this thread cleared this thing up for me. Such a beautiful paradox. 

[Leo Gura]

FYI, those of you who I see keep arguing this notion: "If you say you're enlightened then by definition you're not enlightened because an enlightened being would never say such a thing." are wrong.

You're confusing humility with truth.

Saying you're enlightened is no different than saying that you understand that 1+1=2. You either understand it or you don't. If you do, there is no problem saying, "I understand that 1+1=2."

Now of course it would be silly to run around the street shouting at people, "I UNDERSTAND 1+1=2!!!!! I AM SPECIAL!" If you did that, that would be a sign of something being off about you. But there is no problem to admit you understand 1+1=2.

One who is enlightened knows he is enlightened. He doesn't need to be humble with himself. Knowing you're enlightened isn't egotistical. It's just a consequence of enlightenment.

Of course, with all that said, just because someone thinks or says they are enlightened, doesn't mean they are. They could easily be fooling themselves.

But one thing I would suggest you guys do is stop debating who is or isn't enlightened. It's just not a good thing to debate because the only one you can really be sure about is yourself. And if you're debating about other people's enlightenments, well... that a pretty good sign that not only are you not enlightened, you're a newb. You cannot truly know whether someone else understands that 1+1=2. But you can certainly know if you do. It's not rocket science.

Don't get caught up on the uses of the word "you" here. This is a just a function of our dualistic language. Of course there is no "who" who knows.

The reason that gurus don't announce: I AM ENLIGHTENED! is because: A) they don't really need to, B) it tends to create the notion in their follower's minds that enlightenment is just another trophy for the ego to grab, when in fact enlightenment is just the realization that there is no ego.

And FYI, Jesus, The Buddha, and many other mystics have said they are enlightened. Just using a different phrasing than "I am enlightened". That is just a modern English phrase. So by your logic, they were all not enlightened. Which is just silly.

[WaveInTheOcean]

If you believe you exist as a separate self (inside your skull and/or as a body), you have no free will.

If you realize you don't exist as a separate self but as God/The Self, you are free to the degree of how deep this realization is.

I think this sums it up. Remember that God/The Self (the real you) seemingly often find it more amusing to be dreaming for a lifetime than to wake up.

I have the uttermost respect for people who believe they actually really exist. The Self/God inside such a person is playing a so far out game that I can't help but to take my hat off, just like I can't help taking my hat off when I watch a sublime actor in a theatre play.

[ZX_man]

On 11/21/2017 at 3:28 PM, Nahm said:

When I look to the illusion, I only find more of me and find the divine, and when I look through the divine, i only find i am free because I am nothing. Nothing. 

 

This is similar to the Ram Dass lecture where he talks about "down looking up" versus "up looking down."

Beautiful.

Edited November 23, 2017 by ZX_man

[AleksM]

@Leo Gura @Shin

I had a big epiphany and a major realization after reading your comments. Thank you again. I will go into depth about it in the following days.

No energy to finish the post now but I added a little bit more of the notes from the video on no free will and changed the tittle so it causes less confusion. 

 

[mp22]

On 11/22/2017 at 8:30 PM, AleksM said:

@Serotoninluv When I use the word You, with the capital letter, I mean the True Self, Being, Soul, Consciousness - all the same.

When I use the lower case letter you, I am pointing to the ego, to the self, you believe yourself to be.

You have to be wise to discern between the two, if you are still low in consciousness and awareness then you can't properly understand what I'm talking about. I do my best to not cause confusion and use the words You and you properly. These two words are the same, but point to different things. What those two words are pointing to you have to find out for yourself. Words are just pointers.

@Ascend Read the 2 threads below:

 

@mp22  Of course the brain exists lol. We can call it whatever, but it is our collective agreement that we call it the brain. So why not use the word brain. We are doing it all the time for all the things so it doesn't matter. Map and the territory are not the same. The brain is not the mind. The brain is just the grounding platform for the mind. 

@Psyche_92 I am in what most people would consider automatic meditation mode all the time, so yea, it doesn't matter if I meditate or not, I don't notice any difference between sitting meditation and the rest of the day. Most days I don't do sitting meditation, I am meditating all the time, it doesn't matter. But telling you this will not help you at all. Only after you get enlightened you will understand what I mean by this. 

 

@Principium Nexus The environment shapes the ego. This is true. But acting in an enlightened way is beyond what most would consider learned behavior. It is direct communion with a rhythm that is not perceivable, and cannot be shaped into a perception, it is beyond perception. All the things from the environment shape the perception, but consciousness is beyond perception. When I became enlightened I started acting in way that my mind had no clue how to articulate, I was doing things like I knew stuff not like I needed to shape the perception first before I acted. I was doing stuff and I didn't understand why but looking back I know that I did the best thing possible. It takes a lot of time to shape the perception, and now after a few years I can better articulate what I was doing after enlightenment. Very hard to put it into words. It's like a higher intelligence channels into the body and just knows what to do. That is beyond intellect. It took me a lot of time for my intellect to fully grasp what I was doing. That's why I have mentioned in the first few lines of the first post that I still need to create a good map for the territory.  

The ego has no free will. Most people identify with the ego and so they are trapped in the illusion of free will. Only after you become enlightened you truly know what free will is. So yea, You have free will, and you don't.

@Monkey-man Thanks for mentioned what Sadhguru said. It is true. What this means is that after you realize what you are, you also realize what free will is. Ego has no free will. Most people identify with the ego, and so they THINK they have free will. But free will has them, haha. 

 

Leo says it does not exist in his latest video. On a side note, did I call this one or what?