Was Charles Manson A Zen Devil?

[LaucherJunge]

Question in Title. Seeing his deep understanding of the topic of our true identity this question comes up for me.

[SFRL]

Charles Manson was a flash in the pan. 

His significance a media creation. 

 

Edited November 21, 2017 by SFRL

[LaucherJunge]

@SFRL
I agree, he is a media creation but that isn't insignificant for the question.
Many things he said have deep meaning and make alot of sense in the spiritual context, after all he was a cult leader. Maybe he had knowledge about this stuff, which helped him create his little cult.

Rose: Do you have friends you can talk to?

Manson: I am friend to everything I see, everything I know, everything I feel

 

Manson: I…I don’t have that.

Rose: You don’t have that?”

Manson: I don’t have that yin and yang that you people do.

Rose: Is that ying yang?” (rose seems to take “ying yang” as a phrase connoting nonsense)

Manson: yeah, in other words, you can’t make me unhappy

 

Manson: When you leave go get a big rock and set it on the table.

Rose: Yeah?

Manson: I am that big rock on the table.

 

Rose: Do you need to be loved?

Manson: Loved… I am loved, I am love

Rose: By whom? Are you loved?

Manson: I am love

 

Rose: … and what do you say of those people who say ‘monster’?

Manson: What you see is what you get. Man, they have to live with it. I don’t. You have to live with your judgement. I live with mine. (Smiling)

Rose: You don’t think of yourself…

Manson: That is right. I don’t think of myself.

 

Manson: I don’t think you guys have seen me.

Rose: No? What don’t we understand?

Manson: You don’t understand yourselves.

Rose: No but what don’t we understand about you? Granted we don’t understand ourselves, but what don’t we understand about you?

Manson: Just what I said…I am inside of you man. I live inside of you. I am inside every one of you.


 

Manson: Prison? I left prison in ’67. I got out of jail.

 Rose: Yeah, but you are back.

Manson: Can’t you see that I am out, man? Can’t you see that I am free?”

Edited November 21, 2017 by LaucherJunge

[OBEler]

 

[Nahm]

@LaucherJunge he was you. Still is. 

[Saraswathi]

"I'm the man in the mirror,anything  you see in me is in you ,I am you, when you can admit that you will be free . I am just a mirror"

This quote is something a Buddha would say, Charles manson is no ordinary sociopath , he is definitely someone of high spiritual attainment. If it's otherwise that quote would be close to impossible for a cult leader phony to make.

That man controlled his group through his charisma and words .true charisma and magnetism is virtue that you get through spiritual purification . 

 

[Arkandeus]

he definitely knew the truth, and he had enough magnetism to attract a community centered around his being

in the same way advanced modern spiritual teachers automatically have communities forming around them

not that having a community being formed around you a requirement is to enlighten

its definitely a symptom that your vibration is high when people abandon everything and gather around just so that they can share and learn from your vibration

I would definitely agree that he is enlightened, on the path of enlightenment

and he reflects that enlightenment is infinite and can come in the most unexpected forms

[Rilles]

His prison interviews was actually an early catalysor for me to get into spirituality haha.

[Viking]

Probably, he could have an intellectual understanding, but he was actually deeply connected with his ego, he wanted fame, money, etc.

[Arkandeus]

4 minutes ago, Viking said:

Probably, he could have an intellectual understanding, but he was actually deeply connected with his ego, he wanted fame, money, etc.

what one does after he enlightens is up to him, if going after fame and money is one's desire that cannot be a reason to deny someone's progress

one can go after fame and money, not out of a place of scarcity, of trying to fill something up, but out of a place of abundance, joyfully playing the game of life

that is my personal opinion

 

 

 

 

[tsuki]

4 minutes ago, Viking said:

but he was actually deeply connected with his ego

Did we have a committee that voted on this that I missed?

Since he seems to have never been convicted of killing a person himself, I think that his followers interpreted his words however they pleased.
When you put a black hole among violent people, all kinds of of violent things may happen.

He really seems to see through himself, but he seems to not see through others.
I could feel that as a drive for isolation.

[Viking]

51 minutes ago, Arkandeus said:

what one does after he enlightens is up to him, if going after fame and money is one's desire that cannot be a reason to deny someone's progress

one can go after fame and money, not out of a place of scarcity, of trying to fill something up, but out of a place of abundance, joyfully playing the game of life

that is my personal opinion

 

 

 

 

going after fame and money not ouf of a place of lack is utterly improbable in my opinion.

[Girzo]

2 hours ago, tsuki said:

Since he seems to have never been convicted of killing a person himself, I think that his followers interpreted his words however they pleased.

You probably would have very hard time dealing with a sociopath if you ever met one. That's exactly how they operate.

I think the whole topic about him being a zen devil or not is pointless, because regardless of the outcome of that discussion one can't deny that Charles Manson was also a seriously ill person, which makes any conclusions about his behaviour not applicable to the majority of spiritual seekers.

[tsuki]

1 hour ago, Girzo said:

You probably would have very hard time dealing with a sociopath if you ever met one. That's exactly how they operate.

That's how we all operate. We interpret other people's words to our liking (or dislikng).
I'm not an expert on sociopaths, nor on Manson, though.
Just watched a documentary about him and it was framed in a way that he brainwashed his 'family' with LSD.

I agree about the discussion of his devilry though.
I'm not a fan of calling enlightened people zen devils, as I don't see myself as competent in judging other's usefulness to society.
From the limited knowledge I acquired about him, he was as much of a product of society, as any of us.
I can see the reason why he may have turned against it. 

[pluto]

I think he was one of those early awoke beings that had no one else to turn to or understand them for guide or help so he went crazy. I've been to a mental institute before, you'd be amazed how many awakened beings there is there but had gone crazy because no one around them ever understood them and eventually society labelled them as crazy and forced fed meds for schizophrenia and other disorders which severely disrupts connection to spirit(due to physical damage caused by artificial medication) even more so they will appear just as crazy now.

Edited May 15, 2018 by pluto