How Are "you" After Enlightenment? How Is Life?

[iTommy]

Hello guys! I've a friend who I'd like to bring the concept of enlightenment closer, maybe even to the point that he walks the path. Yet, he is very skeptical and has  assumptions about how you are, after you've had the realisation of enlightenment. 

He says things like...

But then you will be like a robot. Once you realize that you're everything, and that you're at peace with what is, what is there to pursue? Wouldn't you just be sitting somewhere with no motivation to do anything, because you already have it all? 

Why would you want to choose what feelings to feel? Why would you want to choose to love someone. Isn't falling in love a beautiful thing?, without needing to choose?

Life would be monotone, you would be like a robot without emotions because you're so detached from the feelings and thoughts.

If you love people unconditionally, what would you do if they would hurt you?

What about excitement? Wouldn't that feeling just fall away, because you already feel complete? What is there to be excited about?

I don't think that you just can consciously change how you want to feel, because the subconscious still runs the show, right?

Apparently you pretty much always feel positive without having those downward curves in mood like a "normal" human being. That just doesn't seem realistic...

Isn't it all just an illusion, the concept of enlightenment? Aren't people just deluded? This isn't natural at all. Why would I want to be like that?

 

 

So... I myself don't have much knowledge about how one feels and acts after having had the realisation of enlightenment. Can someone please elaborate? How is life after the realisation? How does one feel, what does one do? What can "you" control about your inner workings? etc.

Answers would be much appreciated. 

 

- Tommy 

 

 

[Shin]

Isn't that already explain in Leo's video about enlightenment ?

@iTommy I think he explain all of that, not sure though.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Shin

[Joseph Maynor]

I think the truly enlightened person is able to re-enter the illusion without re-entering the illusion.  It makes a complete circle paradoxically.  Before enlightenment: carry water, chop wood.  After enlightenment: carry water, chop wood.  This is deeply profound.  

Edited November 19, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[iTommy]

7 minutes ago, Shin said:

Isn't that already explain in Leo's video about enlightenment ?

I believe that he went over some questions, yet not as deeply as I'd like to. Correct me if I am wrong, mabye I've missed something.

[Shin]

Your friends should watch the episodes about ego and how the mind distort reality, stuff like that.

[iTommy]

7 minutes ago, Shiva said:

Notice that he is coming at this from a place of asking "what's in it for ME?"

What he doesn't realize yet is that this "me" is fundamentally an illusion and that it is the root cause of literally every problem he has in his life right now.

If this "me" is an illusion that creates all kinds of problems, why would you ask how anything could be beneficial for it? 

Enlightenment is only beneficial to existence itself and noone else.

The first and foremost thing is to get him to see, at least conceptually, that the sense of self is an illusion and that it's creating problems.

That's what I still can't yet get fully through to him. He thinks that the ego is what makes the individual, it's what makes us unique. "Why would I drop all that? That's what makes us human and individuals with different qualities."

He doesn't really see the ego as something "dangerous", as something that causes problems, but more as something that differentiates us. He doesn't see it as something illusory, because there is this sense of self in awareness.

Edited November 19, 2017 by iTommy

[Leo Gura]

@iTommy Ego and personality are different things. Enlightenment won't destroy your personality, just the opposite.

[Alexo45]

24 minutes ago, iTommy said:

1) But then you will be like a robot. Once you realize that you're everything, and that you're at peace with what is, what is there to pursue? Wouldn't you just be sitting somewhere with no motivation to do anything, because you already have it all? 

2) Why would you want to choose what feelings to feel? Why would you want to choose to love someone. Isn't falling in love a beautiful thing?, without needing to choose?

3) Life would be monotone, you would be like a robot without emotions because you're so detached from the feelings and thoughts.

4) If you love people unconditionally, what would you do if they would hurt you?

5) What about excitement? Wouldn't that feeling just fall away, because you already feel complete? What is there to be excited about?

6) I don't think that you just can consciously change how you want to feel, because the subconscious still runs the show, right?

7) Apparently you pretty much always feel positive without having those downward curves in mood like a "normal" human being. That just doesn't seem realistic...

1) "You" already are a robot, "you" just don't realize it yet.

2) "You" can't choose anything. 

3) "You" are not detached from emotions, feelings and thoughts. "you" simply see them for what they are ( energy moving ). "You" still experience every emotion, feeling or thought. "You" just don't cling to them anymore. E.g. only wanting to be happy, have happy thoughts etc..

4) That question supposed that there is "another", which isn't the case at all. 

5) Everything is "excitement". Even crying is exciting.

6) The universe runs the show.

7) "you" don't always feel positive. "You" experience every emotion, but you don't cling to it, and you don't try to identify why you feel a certain way, you just accept it. 

 

 

[iTommy]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

@iTommy Ego and personality are different things. Enlightenment won't destroy your personality, just the opposite.

That's one point that I think that I can get across to him. Maybe one of the more important ones, since it's really that what he is worried about. He is worried that "he" will become this heartless being that's just careless, without motivation, without any drive, completely detached from people.

[iTommy]

17 minutes ago, Alexo45 said:

1) "You" already are a robot, "you" just don't realize it yet.

2) "You" can't choose anything. 

3) "You" are not detached from emotions, feelings and thoughts. "you" simply see them for what they are ( energy moving ). "You" still experience every emotion, feeling or thought. "You" just don't cling to them anymore. E.g. only wanting to be happy, have happy thoughts etc..

4) That question supposed that there is "another", which isn't the case at all. 

5) Everything is "excitement". Even crying is exciting.

6) The universe runs the show.

7) "you" don't always feel positive. "You" experience every emotion, but you don't cling to it, and you don't try to identify why you feel a certain way, you just accept it. 

 

 

Good reply. It's true that "you" are like a machine, this is something I can't get fully across to him either as of now. He still thinks that there is free will to some degree.

At number two, although there is no "you", "you" or awareness, according to some video about enlightenment (not from Leo), can supposedly just consciously interfere with feeling a certain way. For example, "negative" emotions arise, and with thought it's apparently possible to completely "choose" to not get affected at all. He thinks that it the same with romantic love, that you can just choose to feel that kind of love towards another person, or not.

 

Point number 4. I get that the border between "you" & "I" dissolves, yet currently as not awake yet, one can only wonder how you will react to someone who wants to hurt you, if you love unconditionally.

 

At number 6. You're not the body/brain. Yet this again, is hard to grasp currently, because we know of the subconscious activity that happens which normally influences how one perceives and interprets reality. 

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by iTommy

[Nahm]

@iTommy ime, we are love. Not feeling love, not aware of love, not even giving love. We are love.  Reality is love, having this illusion of your friend. The veil is intentional. 

[iTommy]

1 minute ago, Shiva said:

If enlightenment means realizing your true nature, seeing everything as it actually is (as opposed to seeing it as you think it is) and being conscious that everything is infinitely connected, how can you become heartless, careless and detached? 

The exact opposite will naturally happen.

It is the ego that because it sees itself as separate from everything else, is creating heartlessness, carelessness and detachment. 

And that's what we see all too much in the world today isn't it?

I am guessing he believes it because of the detachment component. "If things aren't real, thought isn't real, feelings aren't real, how can you feel immersed, and not detached in experience?" 

Now, my guess personally would be that experience/reality is real, it's mainly the "you" part that is phony.

 

[AleksM]

@iTommy The authentic self, your authentic personality starts to shine. You know yourself better. You know what you are and who you are and this creates a perfect union which results in amazing positive feelings.

[iTommy]

@Shiva

5 minutes ago, Shiva said:

Things are very real, thoughts, feelings etc. Everything is real. 

But this feeling that we are this entity sitting inside our heads, starring out through the eyes, that's an illusion. Today even neuroscience proves this.

And the fact that we believe in this illusion is creating all kinds of problems.

Enlightenment makes us realize that we're not this entity that is separate from everything else. It makes us realize that what we really are is much more than that. Something which is deeply connected to everything in this universe. 

Enlightenment makes you detach from the entity and attach to existence itself.

Disclaimer: I don't want to make any claims about enlightenment. I'm not enlightened. But I hope that sharing my conceptual understanding of it can contribute to deepen yours

I really like this part, "Enlightenment makes you detach from the entity and attach to existence itself." 

Thank you for sharing! I now have some things to work with.

[Naviy]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@iTommy Ego and personality are different things. Enlightenment won't destroy your personality, just the opposite.

Leo, what is the difference between ego and personality?

@Leo Gura

[krazzer]

On 19-11-2017 at 6:53 PM, iTommy said:

1. But then you will be like a robot. Once you realize that you're everything, and that you're at peace with what is, what is there to pursue? Wouldn't you just be sitting somewhere with no motivation to do anything, because you already have it all? 

2. Why would you want to choose what feelings to feel? Why would you want to choose to love someone. Isn't falling in love a beautiful thing?, without needing to choose?

3. Life would be monotone, you would be like a robot without emotions because you're so detached from the feelings and thoughts.

4. If you love people unconditionally, what would you do if they would hurt you?

5. What about excitement? Wouldn't that feeling just fall away, because you already feel complete? What is there to be excited about?

6. I don't think that you just can consciously change how you want to feel, because the subconscious still runs the show, right?

7. Apparently you pretty much always feel positive without having those downward curves in mood like a "normal" human being. That just doesn't seem realistic...

1. You can still pursue anything you like, there is just no feeling of pressure or fear. Motivation to do something still occurs.

2. You still feel feelings. You still feel love, very likely much more then you used too. And also there is no fear of losing that love.

3. Most people are already very much detached from feelings and thoughts, but all the while acting upon them unknowingly. Being enlightened, you see your thoughts and feelings very clearly, but they won't control your life anymore.

4. Well, walk away maybe? Unconditional love does not equal being unable to act.

5. Excitement still occurs. The desire to relive that excitement over and over again doesn't occur. Fear of missing out is also gone.

6. True, you cannot change how you feel. But you don't need to act on those feelings anymore, so in that case, you are now running the show.

7. True, that's not realistic. But what about being in total peace with your down mood?

[Shanmugam]

@iTommy The journey to enlightenment or spiritual seeking can't be forced. You can't convince him in anyway. When I first talked about enlightenment in 2002 to a friend, the only question that he asked me was 'What is the use of enlightenment?'... I read a few passages from Osho's books everyday to him and he was impressed with Osho. He also started to accept that enlightenment is true. But he himself never got interest to seek.

That doesn't mean your friend is ignorant, foolish or close minded. He is enjoying his dreams. It is his right. Existence doesn't need any missionary for enlightenment. Once a person comes to a point where he is totally frustrated about the everyday life, the repeated thought patterns and tendencies of the mind, he will start searching on his own. Such a person will always find help in someway. To my knowledge, existence has never forsaken anybody who is ready; it always provides him with some help. 

If you still want to try, then give him a book instead of trying to explain it on your own. Try 'The Power of Now' , or Osho's 'Meditation - The first and last freedom' which you can download for free here: https://www.oshorajneesh.com/download/osho-books/Meditation/Meditation_The_First_And_Last_Freedom.pdf 

If he is very skeptical about the whole thing, then give him Sam Harris's 'Waking up: Spirituality without religion"

[Nahm]

@iTommy he will see your expansion, and there will be a day he will ask you. 

[Soulbass]

I'm not enlighted but I'd say this : hf, gl.