Forcing Buds To Become Folwers

[ajasatya]

2 hours ago, doronshadmi said:

Where is this society are you talking about this forum? 

no. the society name is união do vegetal. it's a brazilian religion. dennis mckenna talks a lot about it.

[doronshadmi]

12 hours ago, Richard Alpert said:

The odds that someone in actualized org jumps to the car under the influence of psychedelic and kills somebody are probably as high as winning the main prize in lotto.

Please provide a concrete proof of your claim.

Edited November 21, 2017 by doronshadmi

[doronshadmi]

11 hours ago, ajasatya said:

no. the society name is união do vegetal. it's a brazilian religion. dennis mckenna talks a lot about it.

I disagree with any method that uses external tools in order to manipulate highly delicate and naturally autonomous organic systems.

Take for example a disease like diabetes that is the result of impaired pancreatic function.

No external insulin supply is optimal for the health of the organic system, such as the natural secretion of insulin from a healthy pancreatic gland.

The same principle is much more profund in the case of the subtlety and precision required to maintain a healthy central nervous system.

Psychodial drugs are gross external interference in the delicate structure and function required for the maintenance of a healthy central nervous system.

Without a healthy nervous system there is no chance of actually developing deeper (or, if you wish, higher) levels of consciousness.

By using psychodial drugs one actually trapped in a viscus circle of destruction\recovery, where all the energy is used to feed this viscus circle of destruction\recovery (which is actually a troll in one's system that prevents his\her actual further development).

Edited November 21, 2017 by doronshadmi

[doronshadmi]

I am waiting to Leo's honest answers to my questions to him.

For the rest of the posters in this forum, please honestly answer to the following simple questions:

Can you guarantee that you are more responsible (for not being harmed and\or harm others) under psychodial drugs' influence than without them, in a given daily life situation?

What do you prefer, to be dependent on external sources (for example: psychodial drugs) as tools for your development or relying on your internal sources (for example: your natural brain chemistry) as tools for your development?

 

Edited November 21, 2017 by doronshadmi

[ajasatya]

3 hours ago, doronshadmi said:

I disagree with any method that uses external tools in order to manipulate highly delicate and naturally autonomous organic systems.

sure. let them fall into egoic traps such as adultery, pornography, alcoholism, heavy drug use (crack and heroin), smoking, divorces and end up destroying the life of their children.

we can let them have a mystical experience through which they can experience deep deep Love and quit their addictions, which happens A LOT.

but who cares. they're too delicate. they're already autonomous organic systems and certainly can take care of themselves 

i am going to stop answering back to you. spoiler: leo's not gonna answer your questions neither. your lack of responsible experiences with psychedelics is making you naive and uninteresting to talk with about this topic. and also you sound too full of yourself and this makes you an uninteresting person to talk with overall.

have a wonderful life. peace and love to you and to your family.

[doronshadmi]

3 hours ago, ajasatya said:

spoiler: leo's not gonna answer your questions neither.

Did Leo actually told you that he is not going to answer to my questions to him?

Do união do vegetal people use also LSD as one of their psychodial drugs?

Please pay attention that Leo does not say no to drugs like LSD in this forum, even if LSD can easily be added to your list of heavy drugs.

You say: "we can let them ..."  

Please tell us on what society ("them") you are talking about that without these "we" (who are exactly these "we"?) "falls into egoic traps such as adultery, pornography, alcoholism, heavy drug use (crack and heroin [I add LSD to your list]), smoking, divorces and end up destroying the life of their children."?

 

Edited November 21, 2017 by doronshadmi

[Nahm]

 

[doronshadmi]

Hi Nham,

Please answer to my question to you in https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/15715-forcing-buds-to-become-folwers/?do=findComment&comment=159992

Thank you.

[Richard Alpert]

Water, vegetables, fruits are also external.

Mushroom is close to vegetable. And weed is a plant. They are as much external as fruits and vegetables.

Be a breatherian if everything is already in you..

Cmon man, do we really need this kind of battle here?

Your first point was solid, when you guestioned that is promoting psychedelics controversial, but then you went retarded.

[Azote]

@Richard Alpert Well, he has some point. Considering enlightenment to be like always tripping, it would be wrong to constantly use psychedelics to maintain such state. However, @doronshadmi , nobody encourages anybody to do this shit.  They are after short glimpses of it, like, to have a reference.

(Anticipating your questions: I don't do drugs yet.)

[Martin123]

14 hours ago, doronshadmi said:

disagree with any method that uses external tools in order to manipulate highly delicate and naturally autonomous organic systems.

howboat food tho yo

[Leo Gura]

Yes, psychedelics can kill you. That's whole point of using them!

If you don't like that, don't use them. This is not kindergarten and this is not a mainstream media outlet. We are talking about esoteric spiritual teachings here which you would be excuted for talking about openly just 200 years ago.

Change your metaphore: we are not forcing, but putting Miracle-Grow on long-neglected flower pots which should have bloomed 5 seasons ago.

[doronshadmi]

19 hours ago, ajasatya said:

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, psychedelics can kill you. That's whole point of using them!

If you don't like that, don't use them. This is not kindergarten and this is not a mainstream media outlet. We are talking about esoteric spiritual teachings here which you would be excuted for talking about openly just 200 years ago.

Change your metaphore: we are not forcing, but putting Miracle-Grow on long-neglected flower pots which should have bloomed 5 seasons ago.

spoiler: leo's not gonna answer your questions neither.

Leo, I do not hide under nicknames and I gave you my honest answers to your questions.

Please honestly answer to my questions to you.

Thank you.

Edited November 22, 2017 by doronshadmi

[Hsinav]

1 hour ago, doronshadmi said:

Leo, I do not hide under nicknames and I gave you my honest answers to your questions.

Please honestly answer to my questions to you.

Thank you.

He has already answered every bit of your questions and many much more sophisticated questions in his 8+ hours videos about this topic, have you even bothered to watch them?

[Hsinav]

@doronshadmi

1. You have not watch his videos.

2. You have watched them but you have not listened.

Thats the only options here.

[Geromekevin]

@doronshadmi Like @Hsinav said. Leo has answered these questions.

Leo has said countless times, that everyone is responsible for their own health.
 

[Hsinav]

On 2017-11-20 at 3:53 PM, doronshadmi said:

I have some question for you.

Are you free of any responsibility in case that you are driving a car under the influence of some psychedelics, and kill some person?

@doronshadmi

Are you free of any responsibility in case that you are driving a car while having sex, and kill some person?

(I,m sure that has happened a lot of times throughout the history of mankind)

According to your logic, sex should be illegal.

[doronshadmi]

Let's see:

Leo says: "Yes, psychedelics can kill you. That's whole point of using them!"

Leo also says: "And if you feel totally stuck in your self-inquiry, psychedelics are the answer. A few trips can save you a few years of mental-masturbation on the cushion."

In other words, Leo suggests to the posters here to use killers in order to improve their life.

And no, he did not honestly answered (yet) to any of my questions to him.

[doronshadmi]

On 11/22/2017 at 0:33 PM, Geromekevin said:

@doronshadmi Like @Hsinav said. Leo has answered these questions.

Leo has said countless times, that everyone is responsible for their own health.
 

This is not enough because the basic principle is a WIN WIN situation, such that the health of one supports the health of others (it is called mutual responsibility).

For more details please look at this post and also see who gave it reputations.

As for psychedelics, in most cases they distort one's spacetime perception until one loses his\her free will judgment and more easily decides to drive a car, to jump from a roof as if he\she is a bird, etc.

In simple words, his\her sense of responsibility to take care of his\her own heathy life and\or at least do not harm others' heathy life, is clearly decreased because of the use of psychodial drugs. 

Richard Alpert says:

"Water, vegetables, fruits are also external.

Mushroom is close to vegetable. And weed is a plant. They are as much external as fruits and vegetables."

Richard, I am clearly talking about external stuffs that have psychedelics effects (as described above) on one's brain.

Hsinhav, having sex does not have psychedelics effects (as described above) on one's brain.

You also said: "He has already answered every bit of your questions"

Hsinhav, please support your argument by providing concrete examples.

----------------------------

In other words, this post has a case.

Morevover, trolls are not necessarily some human beings, as can be seen in this post.

----------------------------

Meanwhile, until Leo may honestly answer to my questions to him, I wish to say some things on this video (and especially about LSD).

Leo you honestly do your best in order to direct some potential user to use psychedelics in the most possible responsible way.

But here are some important issues that you are missing:

1) No matter how many researches through books, videos etc. you are doing as a preparation for using psychedelics, all you get is a perception about psychedelics, which is not the perception during direct experience of this stuff within your system.

For example: You can do all the possible researches from books, videos etc. on the taste of tomatoes, but they can't provide you the experience of actually tasting tomatoes.

In case of psychedelics, the difference between knowing about psychedelics and actually be under their influence, is extremely bigger than the tomatoes' example, because one's perception itself is manipulated by gross external interference of the naturally balanced delicate structure and function required for the maintenance of a healthy central nervous system.

I call this gross external interference (whether it is experienced as a good or bad trip) Forcing Buds To Become Folwers simply because it rippes up your subconsciousness, even if you are not ready yet to be exposed to it.

2) By violently being exposed to your subconsciousness, your central nervous system tries to recover itself, but there is no guarantee that it can actually be recovered from this gross external interference even if you are doing your best to gradually manipulate its naturally balanced delicate structure and function.

3) More you externally interfere in the naturally balanced delicate structure and function of your central nervous system, more the chance of irreversible damage may occur.

4) Possible phenomena of such repeated external interference in one's central nervous system can be anxiety attacks, depression and even flashbacks.  

5) So Leo no matter if you do your best, external interference in one's central nervous system by psychedelics does not give a shit to your videos or your guidance (and this exactly why you suggest to hide guns and knives in some closet or fill the refrigerator with some food, before you use psychedelics).

----------------------------------

What I wish to say is this:

There are no shortcuts in an actual self development.

It means that patience and responsibility are cornerstones of actual self development.

Moreover, actual self development goes also beyond one's ego tripping, such that self patience is developed into mutual patience (known also as compassion if mixed with natural (drugs free) Love) and self responsibility is developed into mutual responsibility.

Only by at least mutual patience AND mutual responsibility a given universe actually supports and develops WIN WIN situations, such that the health of one supports the health of others.

Leo, you say: "Keep at it. You are growing even if you don’t notice it yet. Remember, gains in this work are highly non-linear."

In my view, your statement is a partial view of the discussed issue, because the development process can be linear, non-linear are any possible  mixture of the two, depending on the healthy natural abilities of one's system.

 

   

Edited November 24, 2017 by doronshadmi