Forcing Buds To Become Folwers

[doronshadmi]

In the blog https://actualized.org/insights/its-not-all-about-enlightenment Leo writes:

Quote

Keep at it. You are growing even if you don’t notice it yet. Remember, gains in this work are highly non-linear.

And if you feel totally stuck in your self-inquiry, psychedelics are the answer. A few trips can save you a few years of mental-masturbation on the cushion.

As I get it, taking psychedelics is like forcing buds to become flowers.

No flowers will actually bloom by violently opening buds and there are no shortcuts here, linear or non-linear.

According to the notions above, being tolerant or encouraging people to use psychedelics (especially without knowing enough about their health background) in order to grow, is an irresponsible act, and I suggest to honestly re-examine the attitude about this nontrivial subject, in this community.

Please air your view about it.

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by doronshadmi

[Leo Gura]

@doronshadmi Have you actually tried the thing you're criticizing?

How many times?

[Nahm]

@doronshadmi uhhhh....are you speaking from experience?

[Chives99]

@doronshadmi  I have experienced ego death multiple times on psychedelics, you really can't miss it.  it really gives you a pointer for what you're shooting for.One doesn't find enlightenment, you are more likely to be the victim of it...... like getting hit by a bus

[bobbyward]

I have taken dmt and 5meo dmt lots. dmt was a cool experience but didnt give me any long term benifits. 5meo dmt has helped alot in dissipating the me feeling from the body and quieting the mind. 

 i dont think your flower analogy works for this situation, because 5meo dmt will speed up the very very very slow process of disidentifying with the body and mind. 

the reality is we need ALL the help we can get, you could meditate every day from now until the day you die and still not be enlightened. Desire for enlightenment is the most important factor, if you are not willing to try drugs to help you get it, you just dont want it bad enough. you need to be pursuing enlightenment like your life depends on it

 

[doronshadmi]

On ‎19‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 10:30 PM, Leo Gura said:

@doronshadmi Have you actually tried the thing you're criticizing?

How many times?

I speak from my own experience and it was given to me once by adult people when I was 16 and was not smart enough to say no.

It took me years to recover from this experience.

Leo, I am aware of the fact that I expose myself here and I am doing it in order to prevent the next victim of this stuff because it can easily ruin once life and definitely his\her healthy growth.  

I say it again: No flowers will actually bloom by violently opening buds and there are no shortcuts here, linear or non-linear.

I suggest you not to be the next Timothy Leary especially when you are encouraging people to use psychedelics without knowing enough about their health background, without any tools that can save them from being harmed and may harm others under the influence of this stuff. 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2017 by doronshadmi

[Leo Gura]

@doronshadmi You misunderstand how this tool is used. So, yes, in your case, don't use the tool.

A tool is only useful when used the right way.

If an adult stuck a screwdriver in your nose as a kid, yes, I could understand how you'd dislike screwdrivers and try to warn others about them.

[doronshadmi]

On ‎20‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 7:22 AM, Leo Gura said:

@doronshadmi You misunderstand how this tool is used.

@Leo Gura people around the globe take risks every day in order to be developed, yet they have to do their best in order to not be harmed or harm others during development.

The keyword in this case is taking RESPONCIBILITY.  

For example:

One does not snapling, climbing mountains, driving a car or a motorcycle, developing new drugs, building houses, using high risk machines etc., without actually learn how to do it by using experts, where a main part of this learning, which is supported by experts, is involved with the best available tools in order to avoid harms during activity.

The RESPONCIBILITY to not be harmed or harm others is shared both by the teacher and the student, where the teacher has to do his\her best in order to check if the student actually capable in using the learned stuff.

You say: "You misunderstand how this tool is used."

Leo please honestly answer to the following questions:

1) Have you actually tried the thing that you are encouraging its use by others.

2) How many times you used it?

3) Are you still using it?

4) Since psychedelics has a unique impact on each person, then how exactly you become an expert that can guide people to use it without being harmed or harm others? 

5) Do you think that your videos and this forum are the right tools in order to guide people to use psychedelics without being harmed or harm others? 

6) Do you have the courage to take RESPONCIBILITY and go to jail in case that a group of families wins a trial against you for encouraging their children to use drugs, and as a result their lives were destroyed?

7) Can you prove that you are really an expert that can guide people to use psychedelics without being harmed and\or harm others?

8) Do you have the courage to take RESPONCIBILITY and help a child to recover his\her life, which were destroyed by your encouragement to use psychedelics? 

You say: "If an adult stuck a screwdriver in your nose as a kid, yes, I could understand how you'd dislike screwdrivers and try to warn others about them." 

9) Leo, do you think that there is some chance that you are an adult that stuck a screwdriver in some kid's nose by encouraging people to use psychedelics? 

 

     

Edited November 21, 2017 by doronshadmi

[AlwaysBeNice]

This victim mentality/blame game isn't doing you any good bro.

I've experienced psychosis/depression after a strong shroom trip at 16, it destablized my life/psyche but I got over it by getting at spirituality again and I am not in anyway resentful towards that time, it helped me a grow a lot and fast.

Now, I took the shrooms myself, you were given them, either way, it happened, and done by  the same Self ultimately.

And neither me or you can claim to be a ripped open bud, that's just ego projection coming from still unacknowledged pain still projected onto some idea, just keep going, find some support perhaps in the form of a good teacher and either way you'll be over this soon enough if you just keep going.

[doronshadmi]

@AlwaysBeNice using psychedelics is far from being a game, and so are my questions to Leo.

If you choose to use drugs, then it is up to you, but since the results on other persons are not known to you, you have no case in encouraging people to use psychedelics, and this is exactly what Leo does in this website.

Since he is already doing it I asked him some questions about this subject, and I really hope to see his honest answers.

Edited November 20, 2017 by doronshadmi

[doronshadmi]

31 minutes ago, AlwaysBeNice said:

, it helped me a grow a lot and fast.

 

Please share some concrete examples of your fast growth.

[AlwaysBeNice]

8 minutes ago, doronshadmi said:

Please share some concrete examples of your fast growth.

Well what I learned from the havoc during that time period is how much of an hurt desperate ego I had, and the desires it had for joy or specialness to be found in the outside world, which wasn't working at all, and that being with your mind that's hurt and not doing anything to heal it is hell, and that you can't solve the problem by staying just on the level of thinking.

Edit: I'm also not resentful at that time (which I was at the time), because I now understand it to be a natural consequence of an emotionally suppressed/ignorant of consciousness mind.

Edited November 20, 2017 by AlwaysBeNice

[doronshadmi]

1 hour ago, AlwaysBeNice said:

And neither me or you can claim to be a ripped open bud, that's just ego projection coming from still unacknowledged pain still projected onto some idea, just keep going, find some support perhaps in the form of a good teacher and either way you'll be over this soon enough if you just keep going.

AlwaysBeNice I got over it.

I simply do not wish others to be destroyed and lose preaches time of their life in order to get over it.

Therefore I hope to get honest answers to my questions by Leo.

Edited November 20, 2017 by doronshadmi

[doronshadmi]

1 hour ago, AlwaysBeNice said:

Well what I learned from the havoc during that time period is how much of an hurt desperate ego I had, and the desires it had for joy or specialness to be found in the outside world, which wasn't working at all, and that being with your mind that's hurt and not doing anything to heal it is hell, and that you can't solve the problem by staying just on the level of thinking.

Edit: I'm also not resentful at that time (which I was at the time), because I now understand it to be a natural consequence of an emotionally suppressed/ignorant of consciousness mind.

You said: "And neither me or you can claim to be a ripped open bud"

Well here is your ripped open bud time period by your own words:"I've experienced psychosis/depression after a strong shroom trip at 16, it destablized my life/psyche ..."

The fact that you got over it (and I am really glad to hear it from you) does not change the fact that you were "a ripped open bud".

--------------------------

Please share with us some concrete examples of how your current awareness may help you or others to be evolved in daily life.

Do you think that it can be done without using shrooms (by using only your natural chemical stuff in your brain)?

 

Edited November 20, 2017 by doronshadmi

[doronshadmi]

Anyway, I really hope for Leo's honest answers to my questions in this post .

Edited November 20, 2017 by doronshadmi

[Nahm]

@doronshadmi psychedelics helped me to quickly see that psychedelics don’t exist. Neither does fear, doubt, worry, stress, suffering, lack, shortage, or another entity who bares any responsibility for me because I am alone, and I am free. 

[sgn]

5 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@doronshadmi psychedelics helped me to quickly see that psychedelics don’t exist. Neither does fear, doubt, worry, stress, suffering, lack, shortage, or another entity who bares any responsibility for me because I am alone, and I am free. 

I don't get it

[Nahm]

@sgn it seems to me, the One has a hallucination, believes illusory entities are real and seperate. WIthin the illusion, psychedelics pause the illusion of thinking (and therefore beliefs, as they are repeated thoughts) thus revealing it’s self to it’s self for the infinite that it is, which simultaneously reveals the psychedelic itself is not real, but a construct of One’s own beliefs and thinking. So, to hold any ill perspective on psychedelics or anything else, is the same as holding onto the belief that this is all real. 

[Hsinav]

9 hours ago, doronshadmi said:

It took me years to recover from this experience.

Why do you think it took years for you to recover?

[doronshadmi]

Nahm, you say: "psychedelics helped me to quickly see that psychedelics don’t exist. Neither does fear, doubt, worry, stress, suffering, lack, shortage, or another entity who bares any responsibility for me because I am alone, and I am free."

I have some question for you.

Are you free of any responsibility in case that you are driving a car under the influence of some psychedelics, and kill some person?

Edited November 20, 2017 by doronshadmi