Self-esteem Work Vs Enlightenment

[stevegan928]

I know I have heard it's easier to transcend a healthy ego (a good self-concept) than it is to transcend an unhealthy ego (a bad self-concept) but I assumed that meant one should feed their ego a bit, give it some success, give it a lot of what it currently wants, so that your True Self can see that these things aren't actually making you happy. Is this why it's easier to become enlightened with a healthy self-esteem? 

But my real question is, is it bad to work on enlightenment and self-esteem at the same time? Or should enlightenment be after self-esteem work? I'm currently doing self-acceptance exercises in the mirror as well as doing a bit of self-inquiry and meditation. I'm thinking of also starting to do some of Nathaniel Brandon's self-esteem exercises as well. Can this be problematic? If so, when and how specifically does it become a problem?   

[ajasatya]

@stevegan928 feed your ego until you feel the highest thirst for Truth.

a healthy ego is needed for enlightenment because an unhealthy ego cannot believe that he can transcend himself. an unhealthy ego will either find excuses to be lazy or hold beliefs about how he is unworthy of true happiness.

the healthy ego says "hell, i am alive, i want to be happy and i deserve it".

[stevegan928]

7 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

a healthy ego is needed for enlightenment because an unhealthy ego cannot believe that he can transcend himself. an unhealthy ego will either find excuses to be lazy or hold beliefs about how he is unworthy of true happiness.

My issue is that I'm mostly interested in enlightenment. But I'm also at a point in my life where I feel I need to develop a healthy ego that knows it can act effectively in pressing life situations. I'm not quite as motivated to work on my ego because I'm constantly thinking there's something else I should be working towards, finding out who I am and what reality is. I worry that I'm chasing 2 rabbits and therefore will catch neither. I'm really only working towards a life that frees me up for consciousness work. 

While I work towards this life, should I also do enlightenment work? Or will this just confuse the ego. I'll still do meditation because of the focus and calmness benefits, but even then, when I meditate I often turn it into self-inquiry and start questioning the self and reality. 

[ajasatya]

@stevegan928 then become ideologically, emotionally and financially independent first.

[stevegan928]

@ajasatya thank you. 

[Toby]

You could get familiar with the concepts of "waking up" and "growing up":

 

[stevegan928]

@Toby enjoying the video, but are you and Ken basically trying to tell me that if I become enlightened as a homeless bum, I'll be a zen devil? 

[Max_V]

@stevegan928 I’m doing both at the same time. I go to a psychologist to solve my limiting beliefs and anxiety. So you could say I am trying to become more confident and work on my ‘self’

At the same time I am also doing consciousness work and self inquiry. I don’t know if this is the right way, but I feel really pulled towards it. So I will just continue doing it I guess 

[Toby]

54 minutes ago, stevegan928 said:

@Toby enjoying the video, but are you and Ken basically trying to tell me that if I become enlightened as a homeless bum, I'll be a zen devil? 

He only says that the two things are different dimensions. So you can work on both, one or none. It's up to you. There is not really a rule or correlation what you have to do first.

[Ether]

@ajasatya i had an unhealthy ego and i still went for the enlightnment route. you can do it both ways

[Martin123]

@stevegan928

 

[stevegan928]

@Martin123 I'm not sure if I've been on the path long enough yet to know if I'm a narcissist of a sensitive energetic being. I currently feel I have aspects of both. I love the idea of being sent from heaven to save Earth of course. So far I feel I've gotten more confident, that could be because since getting into PD I can now see confidence is a virtue. For me personally this video is entertaining but probably not helpful, I see it turning into a back and forth battle in my mind as to weather I'm a narcissist or a heavenly angel. 

I must add though that I love that this guy Isn't afraid to use the word heaven, even God is risky in some spiritual circles. I'll certainly check out more of his stuff.   

[Martin123]

@stevegan928

the heaven stuff is not the point.

The point is, if you are aware enough to entertain the idea of being a narcisist, youre not one. You have an inferiror ego.

Therefor your path lies in healing unworthiness, not in self-enquiry and effort to “detach”.

[Toby]

@Martin123 I haven't explored Matt Khan so I have a question: isn't also the "inferior ego" narcissistic? I mean, doesn't have everyone narcissistic and egocentric behaviour and patterns - even the so called sensitive people?

Edited November 20, 2017 by Toby

[Kserkkj]

On 11/18/2017 at 7:14 PM, stevegan928 said:

I know I have heard it's easier to transcend a healthy ego (a good self-concept) than it is to transcend an unhealthy ego (a bad self-concept) but I assumed that meant one should feed their ego a bit, give it some success, give it a lot of what it currently wants, so that your True Self can see that these things aren't actually making you happy. Is this why it's easier to become enlightened with a healthy self-esteem? 

But my real question is, is it bad to work on enlightenment and self-esteem at the same time? Or should enlightenment be after self-esteem work? I'm currently doing self-acceptance exercises in the mirror as well as doing a bit of self-inquiry and meditation. I'm thinking of also starting to do some of Nathaniel Brandon's self-esteem exercises as well. Can this be problematic? If so, when and how specifically does it become a problem?   

"What in the end must contract, must first expand. What in the end must weaken, must first be strengthened. What in the end must be discarded, must first be prized. What in the end must be dispossessed, must first be enriched." -The Tao of systems thinking.

When you awaken, self esteem is just a flexible belief system/ concept idea. You can alter it anytime, and you know it's not the truth anyways. So it wouldn't matter if you had positive or negative self esteem, although you would be aware and prefer a better self perception obviously.

Cheers dude.

[Faceless]

Isn’t the intention to become “enlightened” motive to sustain and validate ones sense of self esteem? 

Both are movemts of desire to self gratify. 

So doesn’t this imply that enlightenment and self esteem are both subjective projections of the same movment of thought “desire”

Is there actually any distinction between the two? 

The root of this movment is the center “Ego” 

is it not? 

[stevegan928]

@Martin123 So it seems Matt is talking about self-love. Is he trying to say I shouldn't be doing the same meditation practices that I do? Or is he saying I should go about doing what I do but to stop judging myself, judging my ego, and caring what others think? 

My favorite self-love exercise is to look in the mirror and say with confidence, ease and assertiveness "I love and accept you exactly the way you are." I sometimes feel silly or drift off so then I love myself for that, I'll find it difficult to unconditionally love myself so I'll love myself for not loving myself. I do this practice when I'm home alone of course. 

I have another question though, am I showing insecurity by not wanting anyone else to hear me? I may be moving back in with my mom soon and her house is always full of people. Doing this same exercise there may do more harm than good since I'll just be worried that others are gonna hear and judge me which is the opposite of what I want while doing this exercise. Of course I could dig deeper and do it anyway whilst trying to stay mindful of my fear and embarrassment. That seems like it'd be really hard to do though. 

[Martin123]

6 hours ago, Toby said:

@Martin123 I haven't explored Matt Khan so I have a question: isn't also the "inferior ego" narcissistic? I mean, doesn't have everyone narcissistic and egocentric behaviour and patterns - even the so called sensitive people?

No. Thats just an attempt to shame ego. Ego is there to be loved, not shamed.

A narcisist goes out of his way to confirm how he is better than everyone else, to an insane degree (Im talking from experience).

An inferior ego structure, eventhough when it gets all self-righteous, and self-absorbed, it will still feel bad about itself for whatever reason. Also gotta say that narcisists, are quite rare, most people have inferior egostructures.

5 hours ago, stevegan928 said:

@Martin123 So it seems Matt is talking about self-love. Is he trying to say I shouldn't be doing the same meditation practices that I do? Or is he saying I should go about doing what I do but to stop judging myself, judging my ego, and caring what others think? 

My favorite self-love exercise is to look in the mirror and say with confidence, ease and assertiveness "I love and accept you exactly the way you are." I sometimes feel silly or drift off so then I love myself for that, I'll find it difficult to unconditionally love myself so I'll love myself for not loving myself. I do this practice when I'm home alone of course. 

I have another question though, am I showing insecurity by not wanting anyone else to hear me? I may be moving back in with my mom soon and her house is always full of people. Doing this same exercise there may do more harm than good since I'll just be worried that others are gonna hear and judge me which is the opposite of what I want while doing this exercise. Of course I could dig deeper and do it anyway whilst trying to stay mindful of my fear and embarrassment. That seems like it'd be really hard to do though. 

You can do whateever you want. Just notice how youre overthinking everything like...

”Should I meditate or not? Oh my god what does he mean! Omg Am I from heaven? Ya that feels nice but... they can hear me when I love myself, OMG am I insecure?!... “ its adorable

Just relax, and do whatever practice makes you feel good.

I shared the video to sugget the 2 different kinds of path, not to drive you nuts with possibilities.

[Toby]

@Martin123 but aren't narcissists driven by the feeling of unworthiness and therefore overcompensate? And are because of that very sensitive themselves to so called narcissistic injury leading to narcissistic rage?

[Martin123]

@Toby 

Narcisist - “I am amazing, better than everybody else”

Inferior “oh look at me, im awful I have to work hard to be good enough”

Both come from inner woundedness but differ in how they project their pain into their reality.

Narcisist is ignorant, because he demands other people to be his slaves basically, and isnt able to acknowledge other peoples needs and wants.

inferior has the consciousness to acknowledge other people, but uses them to feel bad about him or herself.

 

You probably havent met many narcisists in your life. They are rare, but once you see it, it is so obvious. Once when I fully realized I was dealing with a narcisistic ego-structure in my interaction, it creeped me out so much. For an inferior it is very very easy to absolutely condemn a narcisist.

It is such a foreign way of thinking, and when deep enough, doesnt hesitate to manipulate, lie and cheat just for their own benefit.

There are degrees to it as well, and yes it can be  a combination. 

 

Lets say there is a part of you that wants to be served by others, and wants to dominate.

Does that sound normal to you, or does it creep you out, and you think “what the hell is wrong with me?!”.

To a narcisist, that would sound normal, to an inferior, that is weeeiiiird.

Narcisistic - predominantly superrior ego,

Inferior - predominantly inferior ego