Is Enlightenment The Highest Wisdom?

[Guest]

I think the term wise is fairly ambiguous, so this is fairly open-ended.

What do you think?

[Emerald]

6 minutes ago, Saitama said:

I think the term wise is fairly ambiguous, so this is fairly open-ended.

What do you think?

To give an analogy, think of wisdom like a river that starts in the unconscious mind and flows into the conscious mind. At the barrier between the conscious and unconscious mind, there is a dam (made up of false assumptions and beliefs about the self) that only lets some of the water from that wisdom river flow through. When a person becomes enlightened the dam opens up and the wisdom river flows through unobstructed. It isn't a perfect metaphor, but it's how it feels. 

[Guest]

@Emerald Wilkins Thanks for your perspective. Would you go so far as to claim enlightenment as the highest wisdom, or can you not say?

[Emerald]

8 minutes ago, Saitama said:

@Emerald Wilkins Thanks for your perspective. Would you go so far as to claim enlightenment as the highest wisdom, or can you not say?

Wisdom is the ever changing river that is always there. The degree of how wise a person is, is the degree to which that river flows into their consciousness unobstructed by beliefs, assumptions, thoughts, and other mental constructs. So, think of enlightenment as radical open-ness to that river. So, wisdom isn't a quality in a person. It is receptivity and open-ness that allows this wisdom river to effect a person. You have as little control over wisdom as a fish has control over the movement of the river that they swim in. 

[Rufus]

Enlightened people are not necessarily good wisdom communicators, they just have a continuous access to the hub of wisdom, but their minds might not necessarily be conditioned to translate that wisdom, if we look at the simplicity of babies and animals, they are pure and enlightened, but are they wise?

Not every enlightened person can become a wise guru, a wise guru is someone who worked their ass off to achieve self-development, knowledge in psychology, science, art and all possible life hacking techniques and technologies, and they have a wide library of vocabularies to use when they talk. that how they communicate wisdom.

On the other hand many enlightened people are mentally so simple that they cannot handle the city life anymore, so they pick to live far away in farms or caves.

So Yes, enlightened people have constant access to wisdom, but it's 100% up to the mind's capability to make it reflect on their actions.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Rufus

[werlight]

15 hours ago, Emerald Wilkins said:

To give an analogy, think of wisdom like a river that starts in the unconscious mind and flows into the conscious mind. At the barrier between the conscious and unconscious mind, there is a dam (made up of false assumptions and beliefs about the self) that only lets some of the water from that wisdom river flow through. When a person becomes enlightened the dam opens up and the wisdom river flows through unobstructed. It isn't a perfect metaphor, but it's how it feels. 

Beautiful and Wise answer. ?

[Emerald]

@werlightThank you.  

[werlight]

You see, We already know everything. We just dont remember.. Enlightment is to remember..

[Emerald]

20 minutes ago, werlight said:

You see, We already know everything. We just dont remember.. Enlightment is to remember..

My experiences tell me that is true.

[Isle of View]

37 minutes ago, werlight said:

You see, We already know everything. We just dont remember.. Enlightment is to remember..

I would amend this quote to:

"We have the potential to know everything. We just neglect it.."

 

Kind regards,
Chris

Edited February 24, 2016 by Isle of View

[Azrael]

Is enlightenment the highest wisdom? Very interesting question. For me it feels like there only can be wisdom for the unknowing, the dumb one. The one who is not in the know. As soon as you start to get in the know there probably is no wisdom to find but reality itself.

So, in some sense I'd say yes it is the greatest wisdom to find - for someone like me who is blind. But as soon as this barrier breaks that @Emerald Wilkins used in her very beautiful analogy I think wisdom becomes reality - at least the most of it.

Let's see for ourself, will ya?

[A way to Actualize]

17 hours ago, Saitama said:

I think the term wise is fairly ambiguous, so this is fairly open-ended.

What do you think?

There leaves great room for interpertation with  the term 'highest wisdom'. To act from your highest wisdom is to take action from a place of the most loving action. 

You could also interpret it as being wise, because enlightened beings are really authentic.

[Avi]

@Emerald Wilkins Is enlightenment a feeling? I'm just curious. 

[Emerald]

21 minutes ago, Avi said:

@Emerald Wilkins Is enlightenment a feeling? I'm just curious. 

I don't know. I had two experiences in the past where I transcended my ego. They only lasted a few hours a piece. All of my information is based on memories of that experienced cross-referenced through research that I did later to give context to my experiences. 

That said, I would describe it as a deep realization of the truth which creates complete peace of mind and freedom from fear. It is also accompanied by access to wisdom that is otherwise obscured by the illusions of the self and the ability to love unconditionally. It is also a feeling of connection with all of existence, that you are a part of the fabric existence and the entirety of existence at the same time. 

But these are just memories at this point. They stand in my way. So, it's probably best to try to forget the description that I just gave. 

[Ayla]

34 minutes ago, Avi said:

Is enlightenment a feeling? I'm just curious. 

It is not a feeling. It  is a "beingness". It's not even a knowing. It is being it. 

[cetus]

Enlightenment is realizing your not only the island, but the deep ocean too.

[werlight]

1 hour ago, Avi said:

@Emerald Wilkins Is enlightenment a feeling? I'm just curious. 

 

1 hour ago, Avi said:

@Emerald Wilkins Is enlightenment a feeling? I'm just curious. 

 

1 hour ago, Avi said:

@Emerald Wilkins Is enlightenment a feeling? I'm just curious. 

Enlightenment is fundamentally experiencing your true nature/your essence. In that sense I agree with Ayla. It's about experiencing pure beingness. However, I think any description of enlightenment is incomplete. The only way to really understand it is to experience it.

Having said that, in my case it felt like I was vibrating as pure love and light surrounded my entire body. I could feel waves of energy coming out of every cell in my body. It felt like I was becoming pure light. I lost track of time and I experienced the purest love I have felt in my life. This experience changed me forever.. nothing was the same after that.

I know it sounds strange but it's the best I can describe it.

[Jan Odvarko]

16 hours ago, Emerald Wilkins said:

But these are just memories at this point. They stand in my way. So, it's probably best to try to forget the description that I just gave. 

I'm curious @Emerald Wilkins, how do they stand in your way?

Would you say these two experiences gave you some long lasting benefits? Has your perspective permanently changed from that moment? Do you feel more at ease with your life after having experienced the truth?

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Jan Odvarko said:

I'm curious @Emerald Wilkins, how do they stand in your way?

Would you say these two experiences gave you some long lasting benefits? Has your perspective permanently changed from that moment? Do you feel more at ease with your life after having experienced the truth?

These experiences were catalyzed by a shamanic tea that physiologically acts on the brain structure responsible for creating the ego identity. Most people don't have enlightenment experiences from drinking this tea, but I did both times I tried it. So, they weren't permanent, but I did get a glimpse of what it is like to be enlightened. They were the most beautiful hours of my life.

So, coming back to the average perspective, with abstract knowledge and memories from having experienced ego-transcendence, there have been many drawbacks. Number one, I have spent years trying to replicate the experience, so it is grasping for a future moment. You can only achieve enlightenment by accepting the present moment. Number two, it gives me a false impression that I know what it is like to be enlightened. I do not. The experiences are now only a memory and because memory is a thought, it cannot comprehend the enlightened paradigm. It doesn't translate. Number three, after the experiences, I made many foolish decisions because I was trying to apply the insights I remembered from the enlightened state from the non-enlightened state. Wisdom is a living, breathing, ever-changing thing. What is wise now, could be foolish five minutes from now. Number four, I'm a hot mess now. I've had the best and now everything else feels grossly inadequate. I'm acutely aware of my suffering. I can't buy into reality fully but I also haven't successfully transcended ego. It's like being stuck in limbo.

So, there are many drawbacks. This is why I don't recommend using psychedelics or other entheogens.

If there was one thing that my experiences gave me is that I don't have to exercise any faith that enlightenment is real. I probably would have given up on enlightenment had I just approached it out of curiosity. It's a pretty intense process.

[Jan Odvarko]

9 minutes ago, Emerald Wilkins said:

These experiences were catalyzed by a shamanic tea that physiologically acts on the brain structure responsible for creating the ego identity.

Was it Ayahuasca?

9 minutes ago, Emerald Wilkins said:

I have spent years trying to replicate the experience, so it is grasping for a future moment.

Is it the kind of grasping that the "closer" you think you might be, the more you're grasping for it?

9 minutes ago, Emerald Wilkins said:

Wisdom is a living, breathing, ever-changing thing. What is wise now, could be foolish five minutes from now.

Well said.

9 minutes ago, Emerald Wilkins said:

Number four, I'm a hot mess now. I've had the best and now everything else feels grossly inadequate. I'm acutely aware of my suffering. I can't buy into reality fully but I also haven't successfully transcended ego. It's like being stuck in limbo.

I'd say the more aware you are of your suffering, the better you can work to liberate yourself, because you can now put your finger on it. Your pain will, in my opinion, greatly boost the process.