Leo’s Take On 12 Step Programs

[Russell]

I am 19. I am an IV heroin/cocaine addict since 15. Those two are the most crippling of my many addictions. I have restarted an amazing prescription drug called Suboxone yesterday, and whilst getting back into the practice of self actualization (see previous posts—I used to be somewhat active on here before my relapse), I started studying Leo’s videos again. I have thoroughly attempted the 12 step program, studied the Alcoholics Anonymous textbook (a collection of stories of the pioneers of AA and how it came about, what it is what is it’s purpose and then more stories of recovered addicts/alcoholics are enclosed) I have also been forced by rehabs to attend literally hundreds, possibly a thousand or so meetings, I have to speak up for 12 steps, though I am on the fence about if it’s for me still. 

 

In his video titled “Overcoming Addiction- The Root Cause of Every Addiction” starting at around 33:00, Leo begins speaking, seemingly from inexperience and misinformation about 12 step programs. I felt that he did not even read the actual twelve steps before making this statement about twelve step programs. 

 

“You can enroll in a twelve step program...”

 

False- you do not enroll in a twelve step program. You just go to a meeting (usually in the basement of a church) and sit down, it’s free. U can opt to make that meeting ur “home group”, but u only sign ur first name on a loosely kept and rarely ever checked list usually written on some piece of loose leaf kept in a folder. 

 

“...and they’ll give you a lot of great techniques and that will be great...”

 

I honestly cannot think of one technique for breaking addiction other than the one solution they offer you, which is living by the twelve steps. That’s literally the only technique. And it is a spiritual way of life, not a technique. 

 

“..but they don’t give you the big picture because they don’t understand it themselves...”

 

“Your mission is not just to quit an addiction, and that’s the only real mission that a 12 step program will give you, they’ll say ‘okay let’s have you quit this addiction, and then we’ll replace this bad addiction with some good addictions” 

 

Completely utterly false. Having read, studied, been taught and lived the entire AA program in the past, I can assure you this is entirely 100% false. They only teach you about the twelve steps. They say by surrendering to a higher power (the universe, god, etc) and by ridding yourself of all the negative character defects primarily FEAR, EGOTISM/SELF CENTEREDNESS, LYING, ANGER, etc and by undoing all of your wrong doings wherever possible, and then by practicing meditation and prayer “to increase our conscious contact with God as we understood him” and the main part of what they say solves an addiction: 

 

Literally the main part, and Leo literally teaches this...it’s literally the last step...

 

“Having has a SPIRITUAL AWAKENING AS THE RESULT OF THESE STEPS, we carried our message to other alcoholics and practiced these PRINCIPLES in ALL of our AFFAIRS. 

 

The program simplified down is this: 

 

“Get help from spiritually awakened people, and then when you yourself are spiritually awakened through living these spiritual principles we are about to show you how to live, THEN you help someone who is currently suffering in what your shoes felt like when you came in” 

 

He goes onto say “there’s a very big difference between playing defense and playing offense, in a twelve step program you’re playing defense you’re not playing offense. You’re not trying to become the best human being you can possibly be [uhmmmm no these suffering addicts literally are trying through these steps I see them try so hard I literally was just trying for my life to reach apotheosis while in a twelve step phase] Defense can be good, but it’s not as good as what I’m telling you here. You can take the techniques from the twelve step program [you actually can’t, it’s literally ‘dedicate your life to living under the spiritual principles we lay out, or you can leave on your own accord and try it your way again’] but have the mission to be self actualized. 

 

But what you are telling people there is simply wrong. And it’s kind of hurtful to those in AA. 

 

And the whole video was great, and I truly respect love and honor you Leo, but I feel as though I have a duty to all those who’ve helped me in twelve steps, almost as if they were giving their life to help save mine, and to carry their message to this other SPIRITUAL group, and correct this incorrect info Leo said in this video. 

 

Though Leo and Actualized.org lean far left hand path, and AA more-so the right hand path, let’s look at the similarities...starting with the leaders. One was named Bill Wilson and one is Leo Gura. Both are very into psychedelic compounds. Bill Wilson had his first spiritual awakening with the Belladonna Treatment in a hospital, where he saw a white light and immediately had a spiritual experience while tripping. He immediately wrote down his experience and came up with the program and over half of the twelve steps. He right away began helping people in the very hospital he came in for treatment, and essentially tasted enlightenment.  He then went on to HEAVILY experiment with a little known compound called LSD, and tripped numerous times for SPIRITUAL PURPOSES with some of the greatest minds of the time, one being Aldous Huxley, author of The Doors of Perception. Both mess around with consciousness work and mystical experiences.  Bill was adept at meditation and was into ouija and channeling, and supposedly channeled the twelve steps from a spirit monk that claimed to be a deceased monk during a seance in his home, he held seances a lot. Bill got into what they called back then “witchcraft”. Both use a triangle as their symbol...which AA describes its spiritual meaning and how each side represents a certain thing. Both groups are just people looking for help, both groups encourage growing to your apex. Idk I’m just trying to say that AA, though a basic spiritual program compared to more left hand paths. 

 

He goes on to say “don’t quit ur drug because of a negative reason [trying to say AA gives u a negative reason to quit] you need a positive reason. And the most positive reason is to become self actualized. It’s not about fixing problems it’s about living life to it’s fullest. This is a very different attitude...”

 

AA gives you both. They say if you don’t transform, you will stay stuck in your addiction, and that only leads to jails, institution, insanity, and death. But they literally prove to u how people can come from being so broken to living a truly spiritual life and even help others. It is almost entirely a spirtual, semi religious group, that seems to outsiders like it’s not spirtual, in order to attract people who want nothing to do with God or spirituality (drug addicts) The goal of the program, is FREEDOM. not from just your addiction, but from your ego and negativity. 

 

opioids (and to a large part in this order amphetamines/cocaine/prescription pills and alcohol...but especially opioids...) are a HUGE issue in this country, and it’s taking the nation by storm faster than ever before. So when an addict goes to rehab, literally 90% of rehabs say if they want to live, to go to a twelve step meeting the day they get out, to raise their hand and ask for help. There is literally a meeting EVERY SINGLE NIGHT you are forced to attend at the rehab where outside speakers who have been through the twelve steps. 

 

I advocate for SMARTrecovery as well, but twelve steps can truly transform you from the inside out if you choose to live by it. 

 

This one Leo was totally wrong on and it needed to be addressed. 

 

1. We admitted that we were powerless over our addiction, that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. We came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. We made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4. We made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. We admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. We were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. We humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. We made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. We made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. We continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11. We sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to addicts, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

 

 

[mrhognuts]

this post is spot on. been a member for 23 years.

[Leo Gura]

@Russell You make some fair criticisms. My knowledge of AA isn't first-hand. I could have spoken about it more accurately.

But the larger issue still stands: AA is dogmatic. It will not take you where you ultimately want to go.

There is a big difference between TALKING and BELIEVING about a higher power, and ACTUALLY becoming directly conscious of it, and directly conscious of how your mind works. In reality, how AA works is they brainwash you into believing a bunch of stuff and then you go around believing it, fighting with yourself for the rest of your life.

Which is not to say it's unhelpful, but it's not anywhere near your peak potential. And the people in AA overall are a bad influence, because they are so neurotic, you start to believe that's all you can ever be. You build an identity around being an addict.

And the 12 steps do include various techniques. Taking a self-inventory is a technique. As is making amends. As is having group meetings and discussions, etc.

Compare AA to something like a yogic ashram and you will see the difference I'm pointing to. The problem is that AA doesn't give you the tools to access the higher power. The LSD they once used to rely on is now long gone from the program. The most important part of the program was the LSD! What remains is the support group. That's fine. But just take a look at how many people relapse and stay stuck in AA for 20+ years. In 20 years you could be an enlightened master, rather than attending AA meetings listening to people act out their neuroses.

Just ask yourself, how many enlightened people walk out of AA? The answer is, 90%+ of the members don't even know what enlightenment is. So what higher power are you talking about? A false idol.

All that said, I'm sure it helps many otherwise desperate people. So if it helps you, good. Different paths for different folks.

[jse]

I am neither drug-dependent nor an alcoholic, but I can see the value in AA's underlying message.
 

On 11/21/2017 at 3:31 PM, Leo Gura said:

There is a big difference between TALKING and BELIEVING about a higher power, and ACTUALLY becoming directly conscious of it, and directly conscious of how your mind works.

And that is basically Paul Hedderman's message:  stop TALKING and BELIEVING in a higher power, and just be.  You *are* that higher power, pure consciousness.  Ask not what you are, but what you are not:  you are not your body, your brain, your mind.  We are not separate and distinct souls.  We only dream this in our everyday "awake" life.
 

On 11/21/2017 at 3:31 PM, Leo Gura said:

In 20 years you could be an enlightened master, rather than attending AA meetings listening to people act out their neuroses.

As opposed to 20 years of working on yourself, which will do nothing but actually reinforce the belief that we are long-lasting separate entities, trying to get out of ourselves *as ourselves*?  This is typical egoical delusion, and encourages people on a lifetime journey of frustration.
 

On 11/21/2017 at 3:31 PM, Leo Gura said:

Which is not to say it's unhelpful, but it's not anywhere near your peak potential.

There.  Perhaps without realizing it, you are give the game away @Leo Gura .  You are talking about a separate entity's  peak potential, which is not what non-duality is about.  While working your ass off on yourself for 20 years may result in benefits such as physical fitness and mind development, it will actually work against you in "spiritual" development.  The more work and investment the self puts into "enlightenment", the further the belief in the non-existing "ego" is strengthened.

There is no need to attend AA meetings - just contemplate the basic but powerful underlying message:
                                                                      Self can't get out of self, as a self.

No amount of work or time can help you get this epiphany - you either get it immediately or you don't, time is not involved.  Any "work" towards self trying to get out of self just reinforces the ego, and leads to the typical spiritual egoic condition and suffering.
 

Edited January 8, 2018 by jse

[Timotheus]

@jseThank you for sharing Paul back then in July (I think), helped (me) quite a lot. It really just seems to be about being it and therefor traveling lighter. The best teachers actually say that, but Paul puts more emphasize on warning about this seeking trap.

No need for more knowledge about Enlightenment. Knowing that you ARE in every situation is it. 

The more you are it, the less you suffer.

[jse]

 

[pluto]

"The more work and investment the self puts into "enlightenment", the further the belief in the non-existing "ego" is strengthened."

Wisest words i have read in a long time. Bless!