Did Sadhguru Go Mad?

[Shanmugam]

@Haumea

20 minutes ago, Haumea said:

David Hawkins also disseminated in his books.

 

Is it possible to quote what David Hawkins wrote about it?

[Faceless]

4 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

By the way, 'satguru' is a title that is used for many great saints in India. People choose to call those saints as 'satguru' with respect. But those saints insist that the true guru is within. 

 I agree??

And yeah we can’t change Sanskrit lol 

root meanings are important 

 

Edited February 21, 2018 by Faceless

[Haumea]

11 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

@Haumea

Is it possible to quote what David Hawkins wrote about it?

Sure.  I'm quoting from Transcending The Levels of Consciousness, p. 279.

(Speaking of "600s" level, i.e. "first stage of enlightenment.")

"approximately fifty percent of the time, when this level of consciousness is realized, the body will be relinquished.  If not, then physical continuation is in accord with the response of the world, which may urge the necessity of eating or drinking.  From within, there is no inclination one way or the other, nor is there a need to communicate or speak."

OK, so it's only 50% according to him.

None of these things happened to me upon reaching the 600s.  Literally, none.

Everything was as it was before, except for the "no-self" experience and a certain nihilistic mindset.

Quote

Sadhguru says that more than 90% of people die at the moment of enlightenment. And he says that Kriya yogis are exceptions who fall under the remaining 10%. But the problem is, he also says that he has to peg people down when they are about to get enlightened; otherwise they will die! 

OK, I didn't know that.  That's pretty "out there." Suspicion-arousing.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Haumea

[Shanmugam]

@Haumea There seems to be a lot of myths about spiritual enlightenment. And people always come up with such rough numbers like 50%, 90% etc..  ..

One of the reasons could be something that I always say: Many things about spiritual enlightenment are generalized based on observing just a few people. 

[Haumea]

Quote

One of the reasons could be something that I always say: Many things about spiritual enlightenment are generalized based on observing just a few people. 

That's been my line of thinking about this.

Back in the Osho/Hawkins heyday, you couldn't really get a good sample of enlightened people, so it was difficult to distinguish the essential from the incidental.

These days it's much less of an issue, and so a lot of these myths are hopefully on the way to dissolving.

(Hawkins also says a lot of other stuff that doesn't wash, such as "almost no-one has been fully enlightened except Jesus, Buddha, Krishna et al of that heft.)

Edited February 21, 2018 by Haumea

[egoless]

45 minutes ago, Haumea said:

Sadhguru says that more than 90% of people die at the moment of enlightenment. And he says that Kriya yogis are exceptions who fall under the remaining 10%. But the problem is, he also says that he has to peg people down when they are about to get enlightened; otherwise they will die!

@Shanmugam can you show the video where he says that? 

[Shanmugam]

Just now, egoless said:

@Shanmugam can you show the video where he says that? 

Are you reading this thread fully..  It is printed on the back cover of his book that 90% of people die.. And in an excerpt from the book, he talks about pegging down people. I had already given the link which shows the back cover of the book and the excerpt from the book: https://www.quora.com/How-many-enlightened-persons-has-Isha-Foundation-produced-through-its-methods/answer/Shanmugam-P-12

[Saumaya]

2 minutes ago, egoless said:

@Shanmugam can you show the video where he says that? 

Actually Ive heard him say that a lot of times lol

[egoless]

2 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

Are you reading this thread fully..  It is printed on the back cover of his book that 90% of people die.. And in an excerpt from the book, he talks about pegging down people. I had already given the link which shows the back cover of the book and the excerpt from the book: https://www.quora.com/How-many-enlightened-persons-has-Isha-Foundation-produced-through-its-methods/answer/Shanmugam-P-12

See the arguments you are providing really sound alarming from our perspectives. I agree that this is very strange and could be sign of some delusion. However total open mindedness would require us to always be open to possibility that we might not know something. That there are some deeper understandings which from out perspective seem like crazy. For example, imagine yourself before you knew about possibility of Enlightenment. Or me till I open myself to the possibility that reality might be the dream. 

[Preety_India]

It's important to distinguish general from the specific. Sadhguru still has many important things to talk about and his ideas are just great. The daily dose of wisdom from him is so wonderful. 

[Haumea]

9 minutes ago, egoless said:

See the arguments you are providing really sound alarming from our perspectives. I agree that this is very strange and could be sign of some delusion. However total open mindedness would require us to always be open to possibility that we might not know something. That there are some deeper understandings which from out perspective seem like crazy. For example, imagine yourself before you knew about possibility of Enlightenment. Or me till I open myself to the possibility that reality might be the dream. 

I know for a fact that this doesn't happen.

The body is run by nature.

The presence or absence of the I-thought makes no difference vis-a-vis survival instincts.

If someone started shit with me, I would kick their ass...in a loving way, of course.

Don't worry about this even for a second.

There are (at least?) 3 people on this thread post-1000 still very much alive.

(And most importantly, do not confuse fame and charisma for full awakening.)

Edited February 21, 2018 by Haumea

[Shanmugam]

@egoless Don't confuse between two different things... Yes, it is very much necessary to be open-minded and you have no idea how open minded I have been in my life... That would be something that I suggest to anyone.. But there are also a lot of people out there who want to to do business by saying anything they want, taking advantage of your temptations...

First, read everything I have written about Sadhguru open-mindedly. I have covered many things in many posts... After being associated with him for 15 years and after being open-minded to everything he said, there should be a reason why I criticize Sadhguru. If I had not been open-minded, I would not have listened to Sadhguru in the first place and bought Linga Bhairavi Gudi and Dhyanalinga yantra which costs about Rs.33,000!

Also, try to see the whole picture. Because many people only look at one thing at a time. What I have written about Sadhguru has been very clear and very much convincing for many people.

 

[egoless]

7 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

@egoless Don't confuse between two different things... Yes, it is very much necessary to be open-minded and you have no idea how open minded I have been in my life... That would be something that I suggest to anyone.. But there are also a lot of people out there who want to to do business by saying anything they want, taking advantage of your temptations...

First, read everything I have written about Sadhguru open-mindedly. I have covered many things in many posts... After being associated with him for 15 years and after being open-minded to everything he said, there should be a reason why I criticize Sadhguru. If I had not been open-minded, I would not have listened to Sadhguru in the first place and bought Linga Bhairavi Gudi and Dhyanalinga yantra which costs about Rs.33,000!

Also, try to see the whole picture. Because many people only look at one thing at a time. What I have written about Sadhguru has been very clear and very much convincing for many people.

 

Fair enough. Your arguments have value indeed. I never followed sadhguru for Enlightenment related teachings I only found some valuable insights in his general talk and wisdom. For nonduality teachings I only follow Rupert Spira and you know that. And your advice is always valuable. 

Edited February 21, 2018 by egoless

[Shanmugam]

@egoless Good! Keep listening to Rupert Spira.. He is direct.

 

[Saumaya]

Sadhguru sometimes says fishy things... but most of his stuff I find is brilliant

[Shanmugam]

20 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

It's important to distinguish general from the specific. Sadhguru still has many important things to talk about and his ideas are just great. The daily dose of wisdom from him is so wonderful. 

Yes it is true... Because he has a good communication and he conveys a lot of things which he understood from Osho...

And he is also aware of two techniques:

1) Mix 95% of truth with 5% myths. The 5% myths are usually taken without any questions.

2) Repeat something quite often. People will take it for granted. It is called 'The illusion of truth'..

Then there is authority bias, confirmation bias, bandwagon effect etc. And all these effects occur in the long term without your immediate awareness.  The unconscious mind can betray your conscious intentions..

 

[Shanmugam]

4 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

Sadhguru sometimes says fishy things... but most of his stuff I find is brilliant

He is brilliant... that's my point  

More than 3 years before, someone asked me a question about Sadhguru with a critical tone. It happened in my office and I shouted at him saying 'no one is qualified to talk about Sadhguru. You all don't know how great he is!'.... At least 40 people should have heard me shouting. Because I got really angry.

And now you are reading the same person criticising Sadhguru.  

[Saumaya]

@Shanmugam Sooo...kya haal chal apke?

[Shanmugam]

2 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

@Shanmugam Sooo...kya haal chal apke?

I don't understand Hindi...  I speak Tamil. Please ask the question in English

[Saumaya]

Just now, Shanmugam said:

I don't understand Hindi...  I speak Tamil. Please ask the question in English

just like sadhguru... i was just asking how are you