Question For Serious Seekers

[Ayla]

OK, this is maybe one of the craziest things tried to be expressed. Maybe understanding what is being blabbered here will somehow give rise to some ideas.

There is an arising of lack of proper expression of what is being experienced and impossibility of accurate "translation" of it. 

The "me" is vanishing also taking with it concepts that have been associated with that. 

There is also a "deep concern" to speak the truth (new truth), which is more and more difficult to undertake. Words can't seem to have old function and are being dropped, discarded as non valid. 

How can truth be still expressed - especially in the context of this forum - when everything sounds like a cacophony ? 

"Ayla" (LOL) seems to have trouble focusing into expression. 

Help ? 

 

 

 

[Neo]

OK well I don't pretend to be a serious seeker at this moment in time, however I can try to understand that if you are trying to describe a transparent awareness that holds everything in it which you experienced in your own way and transcends anything here on this earth, I think words would fail for me too. Any good to you? 

[vizual]

Oh that's easy. If you want to make something really clear, then all you have to do is write that thing in CAPS. Then everyone will understand it. Read this is in the internet rule book.

Edited February 23, 2016 by vizual

[Henri]

@Ayla Is there a feeling of gratitude or bliss?

[Electron]

@Ayla Even if you are clear with your word and associate each word precisely with the respective sensation you feel inside of you. How the hell are we gonna know that the word you speak is to be associated to this particular experience of ours. We are not even under the same grounds on an experiential standpoint. So words are eventually gonna mislead if we take your word for it, because we probably might associate it to some other experience of ours. That's why I think we need to do the shit ourselves. 

Edited February 23, 2016 by Sigma

[Pierre]

"Thus the philosophical people wanted to know just exactly what I meant by the eternal now, and why it should be of any significance. If they were told that it meant nothing because it was not a word, and signified nothing because it was not a sign, they would shrug their shoulders and change the subject, because all they really wanted was a construct of words. When the academically schooled philosopher asks for a meaning he asks only for another set of signs, and so ad infinitum. What is meaning as opposed to what has meaning never enters into his game. All such philosophers should play Vish. Each player is given a copy of the same dictionary. A referee draws a word from a hat, and immediately the players look it up, take a key word from the definition and look that up, and so on. The first player to get back to the original word calls out "Vish!" (vicious circle), and the referee checks his steps to be sure they are legitimate."

"It might have been better if I had simply remained silent, or shouted "BANG!"

Alan Watts, In My Own Way, pp.141

[Henri]

Can you be wordless?

Can you be without words? Can words truly express how you feel or what moves you inside? Our spiritual unfoldment is beyond words. Yet we like to chatter on about it.

It is the ego that immediately wants to say something, to make it small, to say, "Me! I have had this experience. This happened to me!" The ego wants to see that its record of achievements is better than someone else's.

In spirit, ego is transcended. God is wholly present in each one of us, one hundred percent. We are full. And the Master's love and guidance are always entirely available for each and every person. It's that way for everybody.

Words reduce our experiences to a concept. They only solidify things. Can you simply enjoy the autumn leaves and let go? Can you be totally with the experience of their mystery and beauty?

Yet the mind likes to put words to it. When we speak them out, that beautiful deep feeling gets solidified into those words.

If we repeat the words over and over, that silent, deep, mysterious feeling becomes lost in the words. Then we are left only with words. 

Be willing to be wordless. Then if words do come up, they become poetry. Or prayer. Or singing. These words move us deeply.

Do you think that maybe, after all these years, you've said everything you need to say, perhaps even several times over?

Can you be wordless ... for just a little while?

 

Prayer within breath
Is silence...
Love within Infinity
Is silence...
Wisdom 
without word
Is silence...
Compassion 
without aim
Is silence...
Smiling with all 
the Existence
Is silence!

 

 

Silence is the language of God, the Divine Presence speaking -- the music of the Eternal.

Silence is the seed of creation...

The purpose of words is to create silence...

True laughter and celebration are born only out of deep silence...

Inevitably one experiences profound silence in the presence of the Master...

Questions disappear...

Worries, anxieties and desires disappear...

One is left speechless...

 

 

[Ayla]

@Neo - that does not help the problem here. It only explains it somehow... 

one note to it is that I did not experience anything at all.. "I AM" that while not being at all... 

25 minutes ago, Henri said:

@Ayla Is there a feeling of gratitude or bliss?

all the time

@Sigma  that's the problem: no me here left

 

6 minutes ago, Pierre said:

"It might have been better if I had simply remained silent, or shouted "BANG!"

 

The question is how would this help this forum ?  (which "I'd" LOL still "want" LOL to "do" LOL)

 

[Ayla]

@Pinocchio , there seems to be no other way left here, but MY (lol) plead was to find ways to actually express something to "people" here. Not teach anything at all, but guide a bit. Unhinge a bit. 

No there's no real need but... a sort of a dance needing to take place. 

[Ayla]

14 minutes ago, Henri said:

Inevitably one experiences profound silence in the presence of the Master...

 

There's no me AND no master. 

There's NO SILENCE opposed to non-silence... 

There's no more this and that. How can this be conveyed from here... put """"""""""""""""""""""""""" all over the place lol 

[Electron]

@Ayla But you are guiding us with what you post. I follow most of yours and leo's post. You guys give me some amazing insights. And if we dig deep, it seems like there are many experiential grounds which are basic to every human being. There has to be, otherwise words won't help people at all. And if that's really true then maybe if you practice expression and study how an expression of someone is diffused in someone else's mind then maybe you would be able to guide us even better.

[Neo]

It's called continuum?

[Ayla]

Ok let's try this way: how can "I" talk/write when there's no experience of the "I" here left? 

No matter what is trying to be expressed has so many facets - most of them illusory or interpretable or already wrongly used - that it cannot get out in a way it is truly experienced here? 

[Neo]

What if you had a bunch of dogs and one of them somehow made a leap of thought and joined in a human conversation about some abstract mathematical problem. Then he goes back to the other dogs and all he has with which to explain the other dogs is woof, bark and woof woof. And not only that, the other dogs are just interested in sniffing stuff and waiting for dinner.

[Ayla]

@Sigma

"""""""ME"""""""""" - was evolving too in the context of this forum (read dis-evolving), until something hit a critical mass and exploded into THAT. 

That THAT now not only JUST IS, but IT IS ALL of IT. 

[Guczo]

@Ayla

You can communicate instructions only through words.

Words are just signpost.

Words/thoughts are not problem themselves. Our automatic habit to fail to recognize them as words/thoughts is.

[Ayla]

1 minute ago, Neo said:

What if you had a bunch of dogs and one of them somehow made a leap of thought and joined in a human conversation about some abstract mathematical problem. Then he goes back to the other dogs and all he has with which to explain the other dogs is woof, bark and woof woof. And not only that, the other dogs are just interested in sniffing stuff and waiting for dinner.

Feels a bit like that. LOL

Only, "God" has facets: all the facets but here it's referred to the knowing, the feeling the understanding that the other dogs WANT to experience and become mathematics, they are longing for it in different shapes and forms.  ( put """"""""""" again all over)

 

[Ayla]

OK let's try and go back a step and talk human lol. 

Keep in mind, this feels VERY inaccurate in the way it is being expressed (words used, especially the I and myself and the you and the want...oh Lord, see?), but the underlying idea is true. 

"I still want to guide and interact with this forum and I find myself in the impossibility to do so within my current paradigm, because none of the words I can come up with really express what is meant, and I don't want to mislead you" 

[Electron]

@Ayla I don't think I stumbled at all in having a sense of what you mean by THAT. Even if that is a sense of something else which you never meant, which it probably is otherwise I would be enlightened right away. Do you somehow suspect that you are inducing wrong sense in people by possessing no means of fair expression? I think that sense highly depends on what we mean by what is expressed rather than what you mean by what you have expressed.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Sigma

[Ayla]

2 minutes ago, Sigma said:

@Ayla I don't think I stumbled at all in having a sense of what you mean by THAT. Even if that is a sense of something else which you never meant, which it probably is otherwise I would be enlightened right away. Do you somehow suspect that you are inducing wrong sense in people by possessing no means of fair expression? I think that sense highly depends on what we mean by what is expressed rather than what you have expressed.

"I" guess... there's no real, true way of expressing accurately what and how...

Also, feels very funny to talk back to myself that way lol Gosh!! 

There's still a recognition of words used... still they are being perceived on the screen as concepts, when in fact, they're just concepts. Truth has nothing to do with those...