Struggling To Understand Evil

[Deep]

@egoless Let's pretend God is an actor playing an infinite amount of roles. These roles have to oppose one another for the movie to be interesting. That doesn't mean one side is evil and the other is good. People who are evil are just God being deluded. God loves being deluded. God is unconditional so it doesn't say no to anything. If we want to have a war, God would be like, "Yes let's do it." Our will is God's will. 

Edited November 3, 2017 by Deep

[egoless]

Just now, SFRL said:

Nobody tries to be good. Not even an Ape does try to be good. Only humans try. But you can't claim we are morally superior to an Ape. 

I didn't understand the first part. If you reword it I will answer it. 

You are saying humans are worse then animals but I don't agree even on that because it depends on human. Read what I told to "Deep". 

[egoless]

10 minutes ago, Deep said:

@egoless Let's pretend God is an actor playing an infinite amount of roles. These roles have to oppose one another for the movie to be interesting. That doesn't mean one side is evil and the other is good. People who are evil are just God being deluded. God loves being deluded. God is unconditional so it doesn't no to anything. If we want to have a war, God would be like, "Yes let's do it." 

This or that it does not change the fact that we still live in this dimension and even after Enlightenment there is no escape from this body. If life was meant to experience in a relative manifestations why don't just fkin do it instead of trying to become god and at the same time dead god. Who said that becoming the god is the only viable true path? What if it is other way around. I had a discussion on this topic with my friend and he said yes even if it brings me eternal bliss it will kill me and I will no longer be a human. And with all the suffering and negative emotions I love to be a human because this is what makes me feel other positive emotions too and that's what make them so much more valuable... Maybe experiencing life is all that matters. And within this life you just try to be the best according to your views.

Edited November 3, 2017 by egoless

[SFRL]

7 minutes ago, egoless said:

You are saying humans are worse then animals but I don't agree even on that because it depends on human. Read what I told to "Deep". 

It depends on the human yes. But when you are talking about "humanity" then you are talking about the majority of the people. Like 99%. Now tell me what do these 99% of all people collectively being called humanity do on this planet? Much good or much bad? 

I would say more bad then good collectively in the greater scheme of things. Then how can you take what humanity considers 'good' too serious? 

Edited November 3, 2017 by SFRL

[egoless]

11 minutes ago, SFRL said:

It depends on the human yes. But when you are talking about "humanity" then you are talking about the majority of the people. Like 99%. Now tell me what do these 99% of all people collectively being called humanity do on this planet? Much good or much bad? 

You don't know majority of humanity in the face so stop pretending. What you blame the whole humanity for maybe just a doing of some powerful greedy authority thirsty political leaders who turn everything to their profit. Do they have followers? Sure they do but stop boiling everyone in the same water.

Even if it may appear that humanity collectively has done more bad than good - can't claim that either because you don't know small details. - The cause maybe the huge gap between the power. You know that today global countries are led by small group of powerful politics and you can't blame the rest of humanity for their actions.

Edited November 3, 2017 by egoless

[Leo Gura]

If you don't desire to know the truth, then even God cannot help you.

You have been shown the path to Goodness, but you insist on being evil. So be it.

[Source_Mystic]

Your mind wants black and white. Your mind wants good and evil.  You mind wants to praise good and despise evil. Reality does not give a Fuck what your mind wants. 

This realization is rather simple when it comes down to it. Nonduality is about unity and oneness of all dichotomy's but how do you resolve evil vs good. In fact there is no evil or good without each other they drive each other and when you get right down to it they are the same force.

Just like the old saying you can not have a argument with out two people. You can not have a one sided reality. Look at good and evil as two independent forces not unlike two people in a argument each wants their own way  but Neither will get anything unless they comprise.  It is the outcome that is important part not the two sides of a argument. Good and evil are in fact the same force one is just turned inside out.

I will put it another way.  You have a coin. On one  side you have heads on the other you have tails but both can not be separated they are both part of the same coin even though they are opposites they are unified as one,  tied together for all eternity.  They are both the same universal force. Good and evil are heads and tails of the same coin.

 Where this concept gets challenging is when you are slighted by someones actions that are entirely wrong.   Their is a struggle you feel angry and you want them to pay for the injustice of what they did to you. You start thinking negative thoughts , evil thoughts you want retribution.   You want them to hurt like they hurt you.  Reality is a measure of all things just as humans are  and if you do not understand that you can never truly be unified and whole. 

Your ego wants you to take things personalty and take a side and say I am better I am good when in reality everyone has the capacity for great evil. It is usually a matter of how far are you pushed before you brake and flip and think evil thoughts. People also have a capacity for great good if given the right opportunity and surrounded by the right people. 

When you find you are taking things personalty realize.  What you are doing.  You are separating yourself from others isolating yourself so your selfish ego can indulge in being hurt and then strike out. This is the definition of duality and evil. 

Truly exceptional people preform a type of alchemy where they transform negative events into positive spiritual progress. That is the end goal to see though all the myriad forms of causality and see the conclusion without taking sides because there is no side to take in the first place.  

That is the best I can do to I hope it helps

Edited November 4, 2017 by Source_Mystic

[Principium Nexus]

@egoless Evil or good exists because you cling to a certain believe. A murderer kills someone because of what? Mostly because they are lacking love, they feel empty, extremely full of anger, they don't see any other solution because their mind is thinking in such a emotional narrow way. Is this their true will?

Does any human being really want to commit such an act? No. Nobody would wish that hes in that position, it's the lowest one can get, similarly to all other bad acts. This action is just pure hate (excluding incidents), because the environement failed to take care of that person.

Reality failed to give love or whatever was needed to make him or her feel content with his being. Isn't that the largest punishment any living being can get? It is an act of misery, frustration, deep sadness.

From this perspective it is wrong, not evil. We can only emphatize which such persons but they are not inherintly evil! Evil does not exist, it's always lacking of something that drives people.

Even if you decide to start fires now, because you want to prove evil exists, you do that because you lack. You know that it's not wanted, but despite that fact you still want "to gain" something out of that. It's always this lacking if their world that makes people commit these acts.

Even if we look at terrorism. It's so sad to see how far the circumstances have driven those men to desperately commit such an act to murder so many people. They feel trapped, treatened, anxious, that their rational minds turns off and find their last hope in a religious act of violence to find final peace in the promised heaven. It's so sad for both the comitter and the people who died, it's just complete misery and we can only emphatize for both sides.

When you begin to see others as yourself you begin to see you wouldn't ever want to be in those bad positions. You only want to help those to get a better life, but sometimes it's too late.

It's societies fault that these people didn't get any better support. It is only a result of the broken way we now interact with each other. The increasing isolation of virtual worlds, less direct contact, people feel more alone than ever.

Sooner or later some revolution will come anyways and will reveal people have had enough of this disconnected way of life.

[egoless]

You all don't read what I write and continue responding in the air. I said I know that Good and Evil are relative notions. But humanity has collective view on some of these Good and Evil amd I agree on those. And because we still live in this human dimension and there is no escape from the human body this lifetime I see not much benefit if you disrigard the collective view that murdering is Evil for whole humanity.

[egoless]

@Principium Nexus As I said some people are born mentally ill who have maniac deviation and just enjoy suffering of others. You have no answer on that. How would you stop it if humanity looses its ability to distinguish good and evil?

[Space]

15 minutes ago, egoless said:

You all don't read what I write and continue responding in the air. I said I know that Good and Evil are relative notions. But humanity has collective view on some of these Good and Evil amd I agree on those. And because we still live in this human dimension and there is no escape from the human body this lifetime I see not much benefit if you disrigard the collective view that murdering is Evil for whole humanity.

Understanding that murder is not inherently evil doesn't mean you disregard the idea on the relative level. You can hold both as true at the same time without changing anything. It's both 'true' that murder is evil, and it's also true that it is not evil/bad. Just because someone knows that murder is not evil, does not in any way mean that they will then go and murder someone.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Space

[egoless]

@Space explain that. If someone thinks that murder is neither right no wrong then what does stop him to commit that crime if let's say he was born mentally ill and is maniac.

I see what you guys trying to tell I really do. But I am contemplating wether in General it would bring more good or bad to the humanity if everybody believes that there is no evil. Some people are conscious enough and may benefit from that but others won't at least that's my current opinion.

Edited November 4, 2017 by egoless

[LaucherJunge]

9 hours ago, egoless said:

This or that it does not change the fact that we still live in this dimension and even after Enlightenment there is no escape from this body. If life was meant to experience in a relative manifestations why don't just fkin do it instead of trying to become god and at the same time dead god. Who said that becoming the god is the only viable true path? What if it is other way around. I had a discussion on this topic with my friend and he said yes even if it brings me eternal bliss it will kill me and I will no longer be a human. And with all the suffering and negative emotions I love to be a human because this is what makes me feel other positive emotions too and that's what make them so much more valuable... Maybe experiencing life is all that matters. And within this life you just try to be the best according to your views.

You should really watch some Matt Kahn stuff. I also have the impression that this war against ego, against the self is just the old spiritual paradigm so does Matt Kahn. Teal Swan is also authentic with this and doesen't pretend as if the no-self is the only way.
But back to the topic.
This is exactly what dimensions are about, if you use that term you should try to understand what it really means. Our dimension is this way and this evil and good is obviously there on this level, if you go higher there are many different dimensions with different ways to see this. One dimension tries healing the negative, the evil aspects. One dimension will just focus on the positive aspect and create more and more of it by those means, so it doesen't need to bother with the evil, because it becomes miniscule. But ultimately we know that the highest dimensional view is god itself, the one, if there is one there is no boundries between anything, for there can not exist anything other than god, no evil no good just GOD himself. Every dimension is another way of expressing reality, the same reality. So if the highest dimension tells us there are no boundries we know that everything we see is just a delusion of our minds, there are no real boundries even in our dimension seen from this high perspective, from lower perspectives obviously there is this evil and good. People with no-self see that everything is one and that is why they just unconditionally love everything even the rapist, because it is them. But as I said all dimensions are an equal expression of god just in another way, so you very well may keep your ego going as it is and have those boundries. THIS is the beauty of life, you have freedom on choice on everything.

Edited November 4, 2017 by LaucherJunge

[egoless]

@LaucherJunge you speak what I mean.

[Space]

Just now, egoless said:

@Space explain that. If someone thinks that murder is neither right no wrong then what does stop him to commit that crime if let's say he was born mentally ill and is maniac.

Well it just depends on whether the person understands whats being said. Saying 'murder is neither right or wrong' can be interpreted in two ways. If you told that to a mentally ill person they probably wouldn't get it and would take it as a licence to go and kill someone. But the average person will see that just because something is absolutely true (there is no good or bad) doesn't mean that on the relative level there is no good and bad. 

[ajasatya]

@egoless no teaching is absolute. no set of words are unconditionally welcome.

what good does it do to shout repeatedly "you don't exist" to someone who comes here with deep emotional difficulties?

teachings to enlightenment are very specific. traditionally, teachings are given by a master to his disciple after days living together because the master has to know his disciple well.

enlightenment is very peculiar and counterintuitive. we're not trying to guide mankind here. we're trying to attain spiritual liberation.

if you want to play the role of the messiah, that's your bondage. if you want ultimate freedom, drop all the roles altogether.

the process of dropping the roles may require monastic confinement for some people. but in the end, detachment is a mental phenomenon so it's possible to do it in the midst of chaos. it depends on the strength of your Practice.

in conclusion, letting go of "good" and "evil" is a teaching for you. it's about your freedom.

[egoless]

I took very good insights from you guys and from this topic. But I am sure you also understand what I am contemplating about and what was my point here. Yes I am also trying to seek solution to the humanity because that might be my ultimate goal. I don't want to be messiah. I just think every one of us should do his best to contribute to humanity. Because I am part of this dimension and I love humanity. I want us to be best versions of ourselves.

Edited November 4, 2017 by egoless

[ajasatya]

9 minutes ago, egoless said:

Yes I am also trying to seek solution to the humanity because that might be my ultimate goal. I don't want to be messiah. I just think every one of us should do his best to contribute to humanity. Because I am part of this dimension and I love humanity. I want us to be best versions of ourselves.

this is lovely. contemplate how you can actually implement it.

in my experience, the best way to free mankind is freeing myself first. people start to notice and ask. they feel inspired and encouraged.

"dude, you're walking differently. your eyes are different! what the hell is happening to you?"
"hey, what do you do to be so serene? do you meditate or something? would you teach me?"
"what do you eat and how do you organize yourself do maintain a healthy diet? your skin looks so soft"

Truth attract Truth seekers. i don't even do anything to them directly. i just live well.

Edited November 4, 2017 by ajasatya

[Principium Nexus]

@egoless There is no evil, there are disfunctional people, who need some special care. Their acts can be preceived as bad but not evil because they are clearly not functional. A healthy physical/mental human being would not commit such act, so we can only emphatize with their short commings.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Principium Nexus

[doronshadmi]

Good or Evil are not some objective states that exist independently of the subjects that express them.

Non-duality (in this case) is exactly two behaviors that emerge form the same substance, where the Good is experienced internally and externally as harmony that enables the optimal conditions for the freedom of original ever finer creativity, where the Evil is experienced internally and externally as dis-harmony that blocks the optimal conditions for the freedom of original ever finer creativity.

As long as X (where X can be a given universe or a part of a given universe) is Evil it is lack the freedom of original ever finer creativity, where Life phenomena is exactly X's way to overcome destruction|recovery energy eaters loops (that are experienced as suffer among living things) in order to express actual creativity in terms of superconductivity (maximum diversity out of minimum energy, or in other words, non-dual reality is non-entropic).

More details are given in https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/15059-mathematics-as-a-tool-for-unity-consciousness/