Struggling To Understand Evil

[egoless]

@Leo Gura @Leo Gura  Two possibilities whether you are deluded or you tell the Truth. for me absolutely equal possibilities 50/50. Ok Let's say you are right. And let's say your higher consciosness purposed that walking around and setting buildings on fire is fun and good way to experience your true life purpose. After Enlightenment ego which held you back from setting buildings on fire would dissapear and you will start to set houses on fire because - from god's perspective as you say, that's neither evil nor good. You would bring lots of suffering to the people even though that may be you, from their perspective you still bring suffering. Was it beneficial overall? I So maybe the Truth if there is one - is more beneficial to be hidden??? Because... Even after Enlightenment you still continue to live in this limited realm. Why don't you contemplate that?

@Principium Nexus  Ok I'll watch after this post.

 

Edited November 3, 2017 by egoless

[Leo Gura]

50 minutes ago, egoless said:

Two possibilities whether you are deluded or you tell the Truth. for me absolutely equal possibilities 50/50. Ok Let's say you are right. And let's say your higher consciosness purposed that walking around and setting buildings on fire is fun and good way to experience your true life purpose. After Enlightenment ego which held you back from setting buildings on fire would dissapear and you will start to set houses on fire because - from god's perspective as you say, that's neither evil nor good. You would bring lots of suffering to the people even though that may be you, from their perspective you still bring suffering. Was it beneficial overall? I So maybe the Truth if there is one - is more beneficial to be hidden??? Because... Even after Enlightenment you still continue to live in this limited realm. Why don't you contemplate that?

When you're conscious, you are more apt to see how your actions create needless suffering in others. And you have a deep compassion for everything, because you understand why ignorance exists and how challenging it is to cure.

Nonetheless, you don't see anything as bad or wrong. Reality is 100% perfect. All the rapists and things which you presently see a problems to be eliminated, you will understand are absolutely integral to the functioning of this reality, and couldn't be any other way.

Reality is so absolutely PERFECT, you will not understand it until you wake up.

[egoless]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

When you're conscious, you are more apt to see how your actions create needless suffering in others. And you have a deep compassion for everything, because you understand why ignorance exists and how challenging it is to cure.

This is very good explanation then! That's all I was asking. If you have deep compassion than that means that you won't harm anyone. But does not it also mean that needles harm is evil? if you true self has such a compassion and understanding then does not it mean that ultimate evil still exist?

[egoless]

1 hour ago, Principium Nexus said:

 

 

Yes this is a good video and good explanation. I understood that view initially identical to what's said in video. But he is saying that: "Everybody does only things they consider good from their point of view". But let's bring an example. When you watch porn you know that it is bad for you but you still do that why? 

Edited November 3, 2017 by egoless

[Girzo]

57 minutes ago, egoless said:

But does not it also mean that needles harm is evil?

You may stop doing it, because it feels unpleasant, not because it's evil. It's you who assign meaning to certain emotions. It's not ultimate, because not everyone is compassionate and feels bad about needless harm. Do you really think that serial killers have any remorse about what they do? Or do you believe that your view on morality is superior to theirs?

1 hour ago, egoless said:

When you watch porn you know that it is bad for you but you still do that why? 

It's a different type of question. The problem here is neurosis and two opposite forces fighting over control of you. On intellectual level you kind of know that it harms you, but on a deeper level you are still hooked to the instant gratification it gives you and value it more than long-term results. The solution here is a deeper insight, supported by brutal honesty about yourself.

Notice that watching porn is only bad from your own perspective. Nobody else gives a fuck about you watching porn really, unless they have problems with their life bigger than yours.

[egoless]

 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, egoless said:

If you have deep compassion than that means that you won't harm anyone.

No, you're still stuck on this whole notion of "being a good person." This is an illusion.

Just because you have deep compassion, doesn't mean you won't harm anyone. Life works on death. You cannot live without killing and harming millions of things. It is IMPOSSIBLE! For you to exist means someone else doesn't exist, just by the very fact that you are you and not them!

The only true solution here is to accept death. And then see what results.

The paradox is: in trying to be a good person, you actually commit evil. In stopping trying to be good, you obliterate evil and live happily ever after. Not because you cause no harm, or defeat all the evil people in the world, but because you realize that "evil" was just a projection of your mind, and in defeating yourself, you have finally stopped projecting it, thus eliminating all the evil in the world in one fell swoop.

But rape still happens. It's just no longer evil any more. In the same way that if a fly lands on your arm, you take no personal offense. You don't call the fly names. You don't call it evil. You don't get angry at it. You don't wage a war against it. You just admire it for what it is: a curious little fly sitting on your arm. How can it harm you if you already don't exist?

[Nahm]

@egoless The only resolve, it that everything is you. 

[egoless]

@Leo Gura Leo I've heard all these from your video -  "what is Devil?" But still, unless I get Enlightened myself as the Truth  - it will stay the matter of belief and non belief. And right now what you are saying I don't want to believe. There are most things which I think are logical and most probably true about Enlightenment but I am not sure about this one about evil. This is the most confusing part for me on this journey. Even more it is the only one which is stopping me to fully commit to Enlightenment work. I am not sure whether I want to fully erase the distinction between good and evil...

 

Neo had much easier choice 

Edited November 3, 2017 by egoless

[Leo Gura]

@egoless You don't have to be enlightened to see that evil is a conceptual fabrication. I realized that when I was like 12 years old. Just think about it and it's quite obvious. Evil is just whatever you point to and say "evil".

Stop sitting on your ass, and start contemplating. You can grasp this point in one day's work. Just be openminded and be willing to drop your ideological positions.

All you have to do is sit down in silence and ask yourself, "Okay, what is this thing I call evil? What is it actually?"

[egoless]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@egoless You don't have to be enlightened to see that evil is a conceptual fabrication. I realized that when I was like 12 years old. Just think about it and it's quite obvious. Evil is just whatever you point to and say "evil".

Stop sitting on yours, and start contemplating. You can grasp this point in one day's work.

What if I do but I don't want to because that's what makes us humans. And what if that's what is stopping some evil people to do evil things. You are right when saying that there is no ultimate evil nor ultimate Good unless we consider god the ultimate good. But... there is still collective view on some good and evil on which we as a humanity agree. And I want it to stay so in regards to murder and other major evil.

Edited November 3, 2017 by egoless

[SFRL]

2 minutes ago, egoless said:

What if I do but I don't want to because that's what makes us humans. And that's what is stopping some evil people to do evil things. 

But the way 99% of the people are living their life, being human means per default that you are more 'evil' then any other creatures on this earth ?

[egoless]

@Leo Gura What you just said is actually very easy and everyone knows it but you are making it one step further and telling me that Leo is all the rapists and evil. That is not 1 day contemplation work...

[egoless]

9 minutes ago, SFRL said:

But the way 99% of the people are living their life, being human means per default that you are more 'evil' then any other creatures on this earth ?

But how becoming true self and saying: all is just happening for nothing and no sense - and continuing to eat animal meat for example makes you a better being? At least as a human or ego or whatever call it you have a choice to believe in a things which are considered ultimate good by almost all the humanity.

Edited November 3, 2017 by egoless

[SFRL]

26 minutes ago, egoless said:

But how becoming true self and saying: all is just happening for nothing and no sense - and continuing to eat animal meat for example makes you a better being? At least as a human or ego or whatever call it you have a choice to believe in a things which are considered ultimate good by almost all the humanity.

Even if you go all out trying to be 'good' by not eating meat, having solar panels on your roof, and drinking purified rain water, the 'footprint' that you leave on this earth, the amount of damage you do to it, is still many many times greater then what a Chimp, or an Earthworm, or Sparrow or whatever does to it. 

A human ego can rationalize a lot of things but by being part of this human plaque you are always going to be more 'evil' then any other creature. If you want to consider what humanity considers 'good' you may just as well listen to the devil himself when he says something is 'good'. 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2017 by SFRL

[Deep]

@egoless You can certainly think evil exists if you want to. You can retain your morality even after enlightenment. In fact enlightened people have a stronger morality than egoic people. Enlightenment doesn't mean you have to accept bad behavior from others. 

[egoless]

@SFRL At least trying is what matters. Everyone has his own perspective. You did not answer the first part though.

[egoless]

2 minutes ago, Deep said:

@egoless You can certainly think evil exists if you want to. You can retain your morality even after enlightenment. In fact enlightened people have a stronger morality than egoic people. Enlightenment doesn't mean you have to accept bad behavior from others. 

I don't think Evil or good exists Ultimately. Yes it's all about perspectives this is easy... But I mean there is collective view on good and evil for the Humanity and I agree on most of them like murdering and raping etc. is evil for humanity! And it is evil for me because I agree with the humanity on that. That is my point here. Even if I get Enlightened I am still human and live in a human dimension. So this is what makes us humans... 

Edited November 3, 2017 by egoless

[doronshadmi]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@egoless Absolute is Absolute. You will not understand that until you encounter the Absolute yourself.

By all means, don't take my word for it. You must discover all this for yourself. I am just giving you a push in the right direction. None of this is to be taken as a belief system.

Reality IS a delusion within a delusion within a delusion -- to infinity! That's what enlightenment means! It covers absolutely everything possible. You literally become conscious of everything that could possibly be. You become God. Your consciousness becomes so total, nothing else remains.

Leo,

Reality Is both absolute (calm) AND relative (changing). 

Some analogy: If reality is a sea, then this sea is both calm (absolute) AND wavy (changing).

Evil is exactly the result of losing the awareness of the absolute during changes, such that one's awareness gets reality only with respect to changes.

Such relative_only awareness is afraid to lose itself during changes, and this fear is the core of one's destructive behavior to others and\or to him\her self.

You say: "There is nothing better than death".

I disagree with your deadly deterministic view, which according to it everything already exists from the point of view of a creator.

In creative reality there is nothing better than life and more details can be seen in https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/14969-ways-to-change-society-ideas/?do=findComment&comment=155021 

     

Edited November 4, 2017 by doronshadmi

[SFRL]

2 minutes ago, egoless said:

@SFRL At least trying is what matters. Everyone has his own perspective. You did not answer the first part though.

Nobody tries to be good. Not even an Ape does try to be good. Only humans try. But you can't claim we are morally superior to an Ape. 

I didn't understand the first part. If you reword it I will answer it.