It's Not An Object

[Spider Jerusalem]

The very act of seeking implies some kind of object that is being sought. I think it's safe to say that whatever is being sought is not an object - so active seeking can never succeed except in the sense that it can lead to a state of not-seeking. Seems simple enough - so just have to wait for the seeking to exhaust itself. The seeking appears to be some kind of circuitous route (sometimes decades) to non-seeking, but perhaps that's the way it's meant to work. 

[Pure Imagination]

What is being sought after transcends even the idea of an object. That's what's so tricky about it! In a sense, all perception (and non-perception) is exactly what we are looking for. The big problem is our mind is never satisfied with that answer

[Leo Gura]

@Spider Jerusalem Actively seeking succeeds quite often. Don't get caught in this non-seeking trap.

People get enlightened very day using seeking.

Hardly anyone gets enlightened non-seeking.

You just have to understand what seeking means, how to do it properly, and where it's pointing to.

Your problem is not over-abundance of desire for enlightenment, but the severe lack of desire.

It takes decades because people are generally clueless, and seek in stupid ways. If you seek directly, with great desire and clarity of purpose, it will not take decades.

[Spider Jerusalem]

@Leo Gura Agree that deliberately non-seeking is a trap and non-seeking by itself won't help. I guess what I mean is that there appear to be  transitions from non-seeking (ignorant) —› seeking (desire) —› non-seeking (enlightened). The two types of non-seeking seem radically different somehow. 

[Leo Gura]

@Spider Jerusalem Well of course the point of seeking to get to non-seeking. All goals work that way. Nothing paradoxical about it.

You seek lunch. You eat lunch. You stop seeking lunch.

Tada! Magic!

At least until you realize that there's more than one enlightenment to be had, and more things to realize than just enlightenment!

Such is life. You're doing shit until you're dead no matter what. The only question is, what are you doing and are you enjoying it?

You're right though, enlightenment isn't an object or a destination. It's here right now! There is no difference between enlightenment and non-enlightenment. Everything is enlightenment all the time, 24/7, forever. So seeking it is a bit silly, because every step you take is one step too far. And yet nonetheless, if you don't take that step, you'll never realize it. That is the delicious paradox of it.

[krazzer]

@Spider Jerusalem It's not an object. Once you get that you get it. You still have to search for it, but not like you do normal searching.

It's more like searching for your glasses everywhere, until you find out you're already wearing them.

[Nahm]

@Spider Jerusalem Question everything. Question who what and why is there anything to question and anything to even question it.  The movie ‘The Game’ comes to mind, but relatively speaking, it’s such a tiny reference. I don’t know if there is a reference parallel to the absolute mindfuck you cued up now and are experiencing now. Even the word “You” is just mind blowing any way you use it. I find it true to say the Truth is what you’re seeking, and the challenge is we typically must rule everything out in a reality that has no truth at all in it. Like everything! You even have to rule yourself out, and yet, that’s where the Truth is found. Somewhere in the end of that process a very deep “holy shit” starts to surface, and then the big flip, and then you’re dead, and also not dead for the first time, and then there is no time, and you’re not alive either. Blissful though. 

[Dodo]

18 hours ago, Spider Jerusalem said:

The very act of seeking implies some kind of object that is being sought. I think it's safe to say that whatever is being sought is not an object - so active seeking can never succeed except in the sense that it can lead to a state of not-seeking. Seems simple enough - so just have to wait for the seeking to exhaust itself. The seeking appears to be some kind of circuitous route (sometimes decades) to non-seeking, but perhaps that's the way it's meant to work. 

Replacing Spoon with Self here.. I wonder if they had this in mind when they created this scene!

[AleksM]

There is an "object" and a subject which deals with that  unattainable "object". 

We cannot prove the existence of an object (chair, TV...) (we don't take this seriously enough). The object is just a reflection and projection of the field of consciousness.

We cannot know the object with our subjective filter that was constructed by the senses.

So, no matter the building blocks from which the subjective filter is made out of, Reality is not attainable with it.

It is only trough direct contact /merging with being that Reality can be known.

The problem is that we identify with the subject which is a construction of the mind.

 

We are lazy beings and allow the constructed self to run our life.

When you consciously construct yourself, then it's good.

When you unconsciously construct yourself, your True Self is asleep and so, it turns out badly.

 

All the words are just pointers. They are not to be taken literally.  Words are there for you to discover something that is not possible to point at. Words are symbolic representations of an "object". The map Will never be like the territory, the map Will keep changing, while the territory Will remain the same.

 

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, AleksM said:

There is an "object" and a subject which deals with that  unattainable "object". 

We cannot prove the existence of an object (chair, TV...) (we don't take this seriously enough). The object is just a reflection and projection of the field of consciousness.

We cannot know the object with our subjective filter that was constructed by the senses.

So, no matter the building blocks from which the subjective filter is made out of, Reality is not attainable with it.

It is only trough direct contact /merging with being that Reality can be known.

The problem is that we identify with the subject which is a construction of the mind.

 

We are lazy beings and allow the constructed self to run our life.

When you consciously construct yourself, then it's good.

When you unconsciously construct yourself, your True Self is asleep and so, it turns out badly.

 

All the words are just pointers. They are not to be taken literally.  Words are there for you to discover something that is not possible to point at. Words are symbolic representations of an "object". The map Will never be like the territory, the map Will keep changing, while the territory Will remain the same.

 

Isn't the problem not that we take ourselves to be "The subject ", but that we take objects as the subject unconsciously.

Only if we look in the opposite direction of all objecrs can we see there is no subject at the end of the line. 

And that subject is who we are, then this means to be conscious - to stop pretending that an object is the subject?

[AleksM]

@Dodo

Quote

Isn't the problem not that we take ourselves to be "The subject ", but that we take objects as the subject unconsciously.

You cannot take the "object" as the subject unconsciously because the "object" is unattainable by the thinking subject.

You don't mistake yourself as being a chair because you have enough awareness that you know that you are not that chair. But why do you identify with the body is the question. And the answer is the same, lack of awareness. The same applies for the mind.

The problem is that the ego perceives boundaries and in reality we cannot even prove the existence of a single independent object, because everything is connected. So all the perceived objects = one big "object".  We perceive different objects because that one "object" vibrates at different rates. This one "object" has infinite possible vibrational states.

Quote

Only if we look in the opposite direction of all objects can we see there is no subject at the end of the line. 

I know what you mean, but that's just another assumption. You cannot see the other side of objects, you can only be directly conscious of the True Reality. You cannot comprehend it with senses because all the senses are just translation devices and the message can be misinterpreted by the thinking subject. There is a conscious thinking subject, that you identify as yourself, it is just not located and physical as the body. It is located on the mental dimension of the mind (4D). The mind has one dimension of time and three of space. Thoughts can only happen in time. Thoughts are a construction and so is time. The more thoughts you have, the more time your creating. Time is an illusion, but the experience of it is real. The thinking subject is an illusion, but the experience of it is real.

The subject deals with the information which the senses collected (sight, sound, touch, taste, smell). All the information is there in the universe (universal mind), our personal mind is just collecting it. It is creating a conceptual self, our sense of self. Then we can allow this constructed self to run our lives (if it's healthy ego then it's good). But the problem here is that this process happens pretty much unconsciously for most people, and so we are experiencing an inauthentic self, a separated self that is constructed pretty much by society not our True Self, using conscious "effort".

Quote

And that subject is who we are, then this means to be conscious - to stop pretending that an object is the subject?

You cannot get rid of the subject. You cannot annahilate yourself forever. You can only annahilate your current version of yourself, so that a new version of yourself can be reborn.  

Better align yourself with your True Self, by redefining yourself. Redefining yourself in such a way, so that it feels amazing.

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, AleksM said:

@Dodo

You cannot take the "object" as the subject unconsciously because the "object" is unattainable by the thinking subject.

You don't mistake yourself as being a chair because you have enough awareness that you know that you are not that chair. But why do you identify with the body is the question. And the answer is the same, lack of awareness. The same applies for the mind.

The problem is that the ego perceives boundaries and in reality we cannot even prove the existence of a single independent object, because everything is connected. So all the perceived objects = one big "object".  We perceive different objects because that one "object" vibrates at different rates. This one "object" has infinite possible vibrational states.

I know what you mean, but that's just another assumption. You cannot see the other side of objects, you can only be directly conscious of the True Reality. You cannot comprehend it with senses because all the senses are just translation devices and the message can be misinterpreted by the thinking subject. There is a conscious thinking subject, that you identify as yourself, it is just not located and physical as the body. It is located on the mental dimension of the mind (4D). The mind has one dimension of time and three of space. Thoughts can only happen in time. Thoughts are a construction and so is time. The more thoughts you have, the more time your creating. Time is an illusion, but the experience of it is real. The thinking subject is an illusion, but the experience of it is real.

The subject deals with the information which the senses collected (sight, sound, touch, taste, smell). All the information is there in the universe (universal mind), our personal mind is just collecting it. It is creating a conceptual self, our sense of self. Then we can allow this constructed self to run our lives (if it's healthy ego then it's good). But the problem here is that this process happens pretty much unconsciously for most people, and so we are experiencing an inauthentic self, a separated self that is constructed pretty much by society not our True Self, using conscious "effort".

You cannot get rid of the subject. You cannot annahilate yourself forever. You can only annahilate your current version of yourself, so that a new version of yourself can be reborn.  

Better align yourself with your True Self, by redefining yourself. Redefining yourself in such a way, so that it feels amazing.

Thanks for the food for contemplation 

[Shin]

1st stage: you think it's a concept

2nd stage: you think it's an experience

3rd stage: you think it's a shift in perception

4rd stage ...

5th stage: PROFIT !!!