Reincarnation

[egoless]

This question does not leave me alone at nights... what happens after our physical death? Do we reincarnate as another body/ego or we wake up from this illusionary dream forever? This is question of the highest significance and I am sure some gurus may have some kind of perspective on that. If we reincarnate constantly no matter what while forgetting the past life experience then this significantly lowers Enlightenment value...

Edited October 31, 2017 by egoless

[Lauritz]

@egoless you are definitely asking too many questions. Do the work, get insights and see where it takes you. Once you experience yourself as the infinite your question becomes irrelevant. You will see that they only arise due to the limited amount of consciousness you have access to right now. 

Edited October 31, 2017 by Lauritz

[AleksM]

@egoless

Yesterday I had a conversation with a friend about this topic. Here's what he said.

Quote

a person is an artificial construct. It's existance is necesssary to perpetuate the illusion of duality. Without personality you would not be able to percieve anything but pure oneness which would be as close to non existance as you could get. 

That is why the Infinite consciousness, Love, God, Oneness, Universe splits itslef in into lesser versions of itself, one of which is Spirit, which is one of the first splitoffs from pure oneness. 

The spirit has multiple dimensional layers and is your essence. It has no form and is eternal.

The spirit than splits itself further, creating your soul. The soul is still not your physical self, because it has many lifetimes, one of those is you, now. You can percieve yourself as any of the above mentioned aspects of your consciousness, but the boundaries between them are maintened in order to even have an experience of progression in time. 

When "you die" you just "wake up" in the greater being that is you soul. The illusion of person fades, and you have acces to all timelines of previous life's personality. When the soul integrates experiences it needs to, it "transfers" them into spirit.

The soul does reincarnate, so to say, looking from 3d linear perspevtive but in actuallity it just splitts itself into multiple bodies all at once. meaning that all your past and future lives are happening NOW, but you from your limited perspective inside 3D body do not percievetham this way. The soul has acces to all "memories" at once.

 

Edited October 31, 2017 by AleksM

[egoless]

@Lauritz I think it is a wasted energy to tell somebody to change. That's what you are doing. Everyone is perceiving this reality through his lenses and what may be True way for you may not be for the other. If I was not so curious and did not question so much I wouldn't even be on this forum today. This is my personality and one thing I am lucky for is that I am so curious about everything. Contemplation and questioning stuff never hurt nobody

@AleksM This is very close representation of my current understanding. I also see lots of similarities in Christianity - the holy trinity. For me Jesus is the greatest teacher and true example. What if people in that time did not understand his true teachings and another religion was created? I want to study Christ's life because I truly think that many answers may be hidden there. I think - he was as Enlightened as it gets.

@Shiva Ok I offer you to do this together. What did you found out maybe you can share with me?

Edited October 31, 2017 by egoless

[Lauritz]

@egoless curiosity is good but learning something by reading about it will always leave you with believing. You can believe so strongly that you think you know something. But only through direct experience will you really know it for sure.

Otherwise there will always be a hint of doubt remaining in the back of your mind. No matter how solid and convincing the theory You have to go through the proof. 

And you do not want to change? What is learning good for then? Then its just for entertainment. And probably you will continue to look for "knowledge" that reinforces what you already believe or what you would like to believe...

[ajasatya]

4 hours ago, egoless said:

If we reincarnate constantly no matter what while forgetting the past life experience then this significantly lowers Enlightenment value...

you're a result of everything that's happened until NOW. everything before THIS MOMENT is part of your past lives. all of those dead people are your past lives.

along with enlightenment, comes the conscious responsibility for what i do NOW. because i am a past life of countless beings.

this is why i am planting forests.

Edited October 31, 2017 by ajasatya

[Highest]

From my experiences, eternal life follows after death, the soul goes on to meet it's maker (God).

[egoless]

@Lauritz That's another example how you interpreted my intentions through your lenses. What you are referring to is called the confirmation bias and I am well aware of it to not become its victim. I am not searching for believes or confirmations I just want to hear other people' understanding of this. This will be helpful for my further contemplation because I am open to every possibility. When you contemplate you may miss something and sharing between other people may identify these pitfalls.

@Shiva I understand your point. OK let's see.

1) whatever we call it it's a change of forms. Through direct experience you can see other people dying and they are never the same right? So that's not assumption your directly experience it but what is it in reality nobody knows that's right.

2) I don't know that neither do I assume. I am just looking for all the possibilities. However, notice that when you are trying so desperately to do your Enlightenment work you also assume that it may be the ultimate Truth right? It is also a leap of belief. Unless you would not be so dedicated towards it. You are expecting the change at least at the beginning.

3) that is interesting. If reality cease to exist after physical death of my ego that means that other egos do not exist. Which ultimately shakes the absolute infinity idea.

4) I am self inquiring daily. I am sure you do too.

5) what if we call this entity ego?

Edited October 31, 2017 by egoless

[egoless]

17 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

you're a result of everything that's happened until NOW. everything before THIS MOMENT is part of your past lives. all of those dead people are your past lives.

along with enlightenment, comes the conscious responsibility for what i do NOW. because i am a past life of countless beings.

this is why i am planting forests.

You speak like you believe that ultimately time exists. Do you? Nah.. I know you well you must have meant something different. explain

Edited October 31, 2017 by egoless

[ajasatya]

2 minutes ago, egoless said:

You speak like you believe that ultimately time exists. Do you?

no. i'm using relativity (words and concepts) as an attempt to reach your comprehension. if you really want to quench your thirst, you gotta do the job yourself for Truth can't be spoken.

remember: there's no ultimate authority. you cannot rely on anybody else's words. faith is HELPLESS. questioning is HELPLESS. when i try to explain It to you, i am deliberately failing.

[egoless]

1 minute ago, ajasatya said:

no. i'm using relativity (words and concepts) as an attempt to reach your comprehension. if you really want to quench your thirst, you gotta do the job yourself for Truth can't be spoken.

remember: there's no ultimate authority. you cannot rely on anybody else's words. faith is HELPLESS. questioning is HELPLESS. when i try to explain It to you, i am deliberately failing.

Yes yes and yes again. I know that. But, still faith is the motivation. I don't understand why people disregard faith as Enlightenment is a leap of faith is not it so? If you did not believe initially that there could be some Ultimate Truth would you shave your hair and become a monk? Faith was your initial inertia to do all this spiritual work.

[ajasatya]

2 minutes ago, egoless said:

But, still faith is the motivation. I don't understand why people disregard faith as Enlightenment is a leap of faith is not it so? If you did not believe initially that there could be some Ultimate Truth would you shave your hair and become a monk? Faith was your initial inertia to do all this spiritual work.

not in my case. i did not choose to take a leap of faith. i didn't even have the chance to make a choice. so faith never motivated me. my existential anguish and suffering did.

hitting the bottom of hell was my highest gift.

[egoless]

2 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

not in my case. i did not choose to take a leap of faith. i didn't even have the chance to make a choice. so faith never motivated me. my existential anguish and suffering did.

hitting the bottom of hell was my highest gift.

I would greatly appreciate your story here or pm. Yes maybe in your case it just happened but that is not the case for all people.

[Nahm]

Yesterday my 6 year old daughter did this certain smile, it was my mom’s smile. My mom was in her eyes. Unmistakable. I think the trouble comes from trying to sort out or individualize reincarnation. We are all that life. We’re all the one. The Buddhists, of course, see it otherwise, so there might be mindfuck on it’s way to me. 

[ajasatya]

19 minutes ago, Nahm said:

The Buddhists, of course, see it otherwise, so there might be mindfuck on it’s way to me.

the buddha taught about anatta. for instance, the diamond sutta is one piece of true beauty!

37 minutes ago, egoless said:

I would greatly appreciate your story here or pm. Yes maybe in your case it just happened but that is not the case for all people.

i don't know what to say of my story. it's way too long to be written in a post.

[Lauritz]

@egoless

1 hour ago, egoless said:

@Lauritz That's another example how you interpreted my intentions through your lenses. What you are referring to is called the confirmation bias and I am well aware of it to not become its victim. I am not searching for believes or confirmations I just want to hear other people' understanding of this. This will be helpful for my further contemplation because I am open to every possibility. When you contemplate you may miss something and sharing between other people may identify these pitfalls.

 

I agree, sharing and learning from the experiences of others is very important. 

But it just seemed to me that you are looking for some definite answers here. 

I am glad you got some good advice in this thread on how to arrive at an answer through contemplation.

[elias]

6 hours ago, egoless said:

Do we reincarnate as another body/ego or we wake up from this illusionary dream forever?

 IF yes ------ how does it help you?

IF no ---- how does it help you?

what significantly changed after you get the answer from somebody?

[egoless]

@ajasatya Maybe the most notable parts of it?

@elias read the last part of my post carefully.

[ajasatya]

1 hour ago, egoless said:

@ajasatya Maybe the most notable parts of it?

1. i was addicted to pride, competition, consumerism, alcohol, weed, pornography, masturbation and porn-like sex
2. my life exploded
3. i understood that i was very ignorant
4. i started to practice yoga
5. i started to practice zen
6. i drank ayahuasca a few times
7. i left my parents to live the life of a monk
8. enlightenment
9. got back to society and started a master degree
10. i met the woman of my life
11. i started to drink ayahuasca periodically
12. i got into agroforestry
13. now i'm here

Edited October 31, 2017 by ajasatya

[egoless]

2 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

1. i was addicted to pride, competition, consumerism, alcohol, weed, pornography, masturbation and porn-like sex
2. my life exploded
3. i understood that i was very ignorant
4. i started to practice yoga
5. i started to practice zen
6. i drank ayahuasca a few times
7. i left my parents to live the life of a monk
8. enlightenment
9. got back to society and started a master degree
10. i met the woman of my life
11. i started to drink ayahuasca periodically
12. i got into agroforestry
13. now i'm here

I am very much interested. What made you understand that yo are ignorant and what pushed you to the limits to finally change everything. I am stuck on point 2. I am also in the rock bottom of the hell right now. I am so lost and confused.