Hard Work Vs Surrendering?!

[egoless]

@Leo Gura you are working so hard to get Enlightenment. You are one of the most hard working persons I've ever seen in my life yet it does not come to you fully. On the other hand it happened to Eckhart Tolle without even trying. I guess same could be said about sadhguru. As far as I know they did not do as much self inquiry, contemplation, meditation and observation as you do to get there. So maybe, after all, Enlightenment is the pure luck. What if you running with the iron rod on the high mountain to get struck by "lightning" does not change much? If there is no free will in the grand scale of things - maybe happening just happens and surrendering to reality is the only option to get Enlightened?!

Edited October 30, 2017 by egoless

[Nahm]

@egoless try it.   if you're still here,  let us know how it went. 

[egoless]

3 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@egoless try it.   if you're still here,  let us know how it went. 

It's completely opposite of trying. It is all about letting go. I am starting to think that some people are just meant to be Enlightened no matter what and some people don't. We can not force it as Leo said. But I think we can not increase the odds either. The only thing I am going to do from the now on is staying present all the time and appreciating every moment of the life.

[Nahm]

@egoless  Ok then, let it go, and don't let us know how nothing went   ?❤️

[egoless]

13 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@egoless  Ok then, let it go, and don't let us know how nothing went   ?❤️

What do you mean? Explain your point - let's discuss I am open to the possibilities.

Edited October 30, 2017 by egoless

[Forestluv]

There is no lightening. To me, this seems like a perspective in which there is "something" that one "gets".

[egoless]

1 minute ago, Serotoninluv said:

There is no lightening. To me, this seems like a perspective in which there is "something" that one "gets".

Exactly! I think awareness will only turn onitself if it is ment to be so regarding your relative manifestation.

[Forestluv]

@egoless I've only had some glimpses of "it". Yet, "it's" not a "something" I find or become aware of. My sense from these glimpses is that there is nothing to look for. There is no thing. There is no event. There is no revelation. There is no "Ah-Ha!" moment. I've likely experienced "it" before and never even knew it.

[egoless]

3 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@egoless I've only had some glimpses of "it". Yet, "it's" not a "something" I find or become aware of. My sense from these glimpses is that there is nothing to look for. There is no thing. There is no event. There is no revelation. There is no "Ah-Ha!" moment. I've likely experienced "it" before and never even knew it.

Based on my experience or glimpse however you call it. It is pure being which is constantly aware of itself but relative manifestations are blinded by the content of that beingness.

[Forestluv]

I don't know. To me, there seems to be a concept of an "it", "there" or "event" going on here. My mind loves to conceptualize or search for "it", travel "there" and hopes to have the "event". Yet there is no separation of an "it" or another place of a "there" or no experience of an "event".

 

Edited October 30, 2017 by Serotoninluv

[egoless]

5 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

I don't know. To me, there seems to be a concept of an "it" or "there" going on here. My mind loves to conceptualize or search for "it" or travel "there". Yet there is no separation of an "it" or another place of a "there".

I still wonder how and why did it happen to Eckhart Tolle for example. Have you listened to his story? It just happened. He was not even thinking about it. He did not even know what the Enlightenment was. So maybe less we know the better? Idk I am infinitely confused ...

[Forestluv]

@egolessI'm no expert, yet my sense is there is no "it".  For me, I easily get distracted and conceptualization of enlightenment is a distraction. That is one reason psychedelics are an effective tool for me.

[LaucherJunge]

@egoless
You can't really compare it. Sadhguru was a very special kid who would observe things for many hours wanting to know what they really are for all of his childhood untill he finally started observing the self. If Leo would have already start at such an early age to observe things with such intensity as Sadguru the same thing might have happened to him.
Same goes to Eckhart Tolle, now there is only subjective suffering, so you can't really compare it in this case. Maybe with the same amount of suffering in a similar situation would also get enlightened.
I don't support the notion that there is no free will, atleast for very conscious people. But even if there is no free will Leo obviously can't choose his path anyway so any discussion about this is pointless and at the same time already predetermined.
 

[egoless]

16 minutes ago, LaucherJunge said:

@egoless
You can't really compare it. Sadhguru was a very special kid who would observe things for many hours wanting to know what they really are for all of his childhood untill he finally started observing the self. If Leo would have already start at such an early age to observe things with such intensity as Sadguru the same thing might have happened to him.
Same goes to Eckhart Tolle, now there is only subjective suffering, so you can't really compare it in this case. Maybe with the same amount of suffering in a similar situation would also get enlightened.
I don't support the notion that there is no free will, atleast for very conscious people. But even if there is no free will Leo obviously can't choose his path anyway so any discussion about this is pointless and at the same time already predetermined.
 

if you believe in absolutely infinite universe then where is the room for free will? every possibility of you already exists in parallel universes and you are just one manifestation among them...

[LaucherJunge]

@egoless
Shifting between parallel realities. If you align your consciousness with a certain life path you can shift. Also just because every possibility exists doesen't mean it only exists once, potentially every single possibility could again exist infinite times in an identical way in which could be influenced by free will without taking anything away from the absolute infinity.
Also how I actually think it works is that you are the one creating those parallel realities with your decisions, so your old life path keeps existing but you might shift into a new one.
But if we really break it down to the highest perspective I can give on this. If all are one, the one is making all the decisions, if you consider yourself to be the one you obviously are making all the decisions even if it seems like no free will because you are in the illusion of not being the one, in fact you already decided as the one.

[egoless]

6 minutes ago, LaucherJunge said:

@egoless
Shifting between parallel realities. If you align your consciousness with a certain life path you can shift. Also just because every possibility exists doesen't mean it only exists once, potentially every single possibility could again exist infinite times in an identical way in which could be influenced by free will without taking anything away from the absolute infinity.
Also how I actually think it works is that you are the one creating those parallel realities with your decisions, so your old life path keeps existing but you might shift into a new one.
But if we really break it down to the highest perspective I can give on this. If all are one, the one is making all the decisions, if you consider yourself to be the one you obviously are making all the decisions even if it seems like no free will because you are in the illusion of not being the one, in fact you already decided as the one.

You are missing the point here. Absolute infinite means that it already includes everything and there is no room for anything else. you can not shift anything because there is no you. But your current ego life is one possibility among this infinite possibilities. Aka. one dream among infinite number of dreams but be aware that there is no dreamer here...

Edited October 30, 2017 by egoless

[Dodo]

3 hours ago, egoless said:

@Leo Gura you are working so hard to get Enlightenment. You are one of the most hard working persons I've ever seen in my life yet it does not come to you fully. On the other hand it happened to Eckhart Tolle without even trying. I guess same could be said about sadhguru. As far as I know they did not do as much self inquiry, contemplation, meditation and observation as you do to get there. So maybe, after all, Enlightenment is the pure luck. What if you running with the iron rod on the high mountain to get struck by "lightning" does not change much? If there is no free will in the grand scale of things - maybe happening just happens and surrendering to reality is the only option to get Enlightened?!

Why not surrender to doing enlightenment work then? Why surrender to not doing enlightenment work? 

Heaven and Hell are two sides of the same coin, but if I have to choose a side, I know where I'm going. (Transcend the coin altogether xDDDD) 

Knowledge is power

Love is power

Where True Knowledge and True Love intersect, is where you are. It's about making the most out of the dream. It's a glorious creation

True Knowledge = All we have of matter is the perceptions of it, All we have of perceptions is the knowing of them. 

True Love = There is no distance between YOU, the True Self, and the knowing of any of experience. You are intimately close with all of them. With the sound of the car outside, with the feeling of hate, with the feeling of love, with the itch on your nose, with the image of your nose, with the sensations associated with your nose, with the entire ego structure! With the images you have of world out there too! They appear intimately close to you.

Who are you

Edited October 30, 2017 by Dodo

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, egoless said:

if you believe in absolutely infinite universe then where is the room for free will? every possibility of you already exists in parallel universes and you are just one manifestation among them...

Infinite includes an infinite number of universes in which you do have free will

Edited October 30, 2017 by Nahm

[egoless]

2 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Infinite includes an infinite number of universes in which you do have free will

If there are infinite numbers of universes that means that there is no free will. Contemplate on that... Every universe should differ from another somehow and each of them is designed in a certain way to fit the infinity spectrum. In the case of free will two or even all the universes could repeat which makes infinity impossible. Furthermore, if you look closely you don't exist. It is only ego which exists and is conditioned by society and environment. Ego is not what you ultimately are...

[Nahm]

@egoless infinite includes everything you just said is wrong