Any Other Infj's Out There?

[X-ways]

It's an easy trap for an INFJ to start believing he/she is something special, at least for me it was amazing from early on just how much people are unable to relate to others or see the point of views from all sides. Also if you don't base your believes or even questions around what is generally accepted as the only real truth out there by society you are bound to get some heat coming at you. Most of the time I feel like it would be better to be just about any other type out there.

I remember someone posting a good quote about what's good and bad about being an INFJ on an INFJ forum: " Intelligent, charming, good-hearted, likable, bad side, extremely low left-esteem."

 Perfectionism is a bitch, but then again why wouldn't you be passionate about your goals and go all in? You what else sucks? Being conflicted about everything  

[Guest]

Such classifications do not flow into my identity. I change every day  and sometimes I'm even all at the same time!

[Natura Sonoris]

@Emerald Wilkins It is hard to accept it because everything is against .. by everything i really mean everything. You whole hardwiring is against it. But if you go push yourself, your INFJ benefits will flourish.

Best thing to do start investigating the roots of your personality. Why you really value certain things, but be very honest. It can be the case someone very important for you, let's say your parents, unconsciously effected you to hold certain values as kid to be true. So all the things that INFJs values or any other personality can be dug up from your childhood. Then ask yourself if those values are really true or is just something you picked up as a kid to be totally valid for you because you did not know any better. Your first response to this might be :  Why would i even do that ? It is me, i like it , it feels like me. I do not wanna question it. The reason why ego does not like it is because as kids our mind is a like a sponge, it absorbs many stuff at the same time, and it build up self image that suits the ego to perform the in the best possible way. Bad thing is, sometimes our mind or the ego makes self images of our selves that are completely false (until you get to the point every self image is just false).

So really question your beliefs and values and ask yourself why i hold them so true ? You will notice your mind will come up millions  of reasons why it is true. But now question yourself deeply > Is there possibility that my mind unconsciously was seeking evidence in the so called external world that it created a very complex map of yourself and whenever your ask yourself is that true, your mind has already made up answer ? Your mind is capable of giving you any answer you want, it just needs to make sense for you. But if you are wise enough , you will see this is flawed. Mind can take some unrelated phenomenon in reality, label it certain way, connect some dots from previous labels. So when you think you are INFJ and when you buy into this idea, you mind is capable of making a self made answer that will make sense to you and you wont leave options to be any different. You need to be completely open minded when it comes to this. Because it is small line of being stuck in life as INFJ and performing good. You need to break your habits of thinking and push your comfort zone. Your perfectionistic mind will not let you because it will it have tendency first to create best possible scenario for everything and then do the work (but you do that every day right ? ) .That's why is so radical to question yourself and push your comfort zone. So do all the opposite what INFj should do. Your new INFJ will be 10x better. Your current INFJ is weak and probably stuck in life and not living your fullest.  

One important thing i keep mentioning here on forum. Your ego is how you see everything. And you think like you are the one who gets and no other ones gets it. When you place yourself into someones eases point of view, it is just your point of you.Your reality is just your experiences and your beliefs and hard wired programming. If you think some other person values the same thing in same way you do, you are wrong. Each person is completely new reality. When you deeply realize this on personal level, you get openminded that you reality can be completely false and you are just holding it true just because you are hardwired to do it. This creates opportunity to break your bubble and grow. Dont be INFJ , be something else and then come back full circle. It will be 10 x rewarding.

 

[Emerald]

21 minutes ago, Natura Sonoris said:

@Emerald Wilkins It is hard to accept it because everything is against .. by everything i really mean everything. You whole hardwiring is against it. But if you go push yourself, your INFJ benefits will flourish.

Best thing to do start investigating the roots of your personality. Why you really value certain things, but be very honest. It can be the case someone very important for you, let's say your parents, unconsciously effected you to hold certain values as kid to be true. So all the things that INFJs values or any other personality can be dug up from your childhood. Then ask yourself if those values are really true or is just something you picked up as a kid to be totally valid for you because you did not know any better. Your first response to this might be :  Why would i even do that ? It is me, i like it , it feels like me. I do not wanna question it. The reason why ego does not like it is because as kids our mind is a like a sponge, it absorbs many stuff at the same time, and it build up self image that suits the ego to perform the in the best possible way. Bad thing is, sometimes our mind or the ego makes self images of our selves that are completely false (until you get to the point every self image is just false).

So really question your beliefs and values and ask yourself why i hold them so true ? You will notice your mind will come up millions  of reasons why it is true. But now question yourself deeply > Is there possibility that my mind unconsciously was seeking evidence in the so called external world that it created a very complex map of yourself and whenever your ask yourself is that true, your mind has already made up answer ? Your mind is capable of giving you any answer you want, it just needs to make sense for you. But if you are wise enough , you will see this is flawed. Mind can take some unrelated phenomenon in reality, label it certain way, connect some dots from previous labels. So when you think you are INFJ and when you buy into this idea, you mind is capable of making a self made answer that will make sense to you and you wont leave options to be any different. You need to be completely open minded when it comes to this. Because it is small line of being stuck in life as INFJ and performing good. You need to break your habits of thinking and push your comfort zone. Your perfectionistic mind will not let you because it will it have tendency first to create best possible scenario for everything and then do the work (but you do that every day right ? ) .That's why is so radical to question yourself and push your comfort zone. So do all the opposite what INFj should do. Your new INFJ will be 10x better. Your current INFJ is weak and probably stuck in life and not living your fullest.  

One important thing i keep mentioning here on forum. Your ego is how you see everything. And you think like you are the one who gets and no other ones gets it. When you place yourself into someones eases point of view, it is just your point of you.Your reality is just your experiences and your beliefs and hard wired programming. If you think some other person values the same thing in same way you do, you are wrong. Each person is completely new reality. When you deeply realize this on personal level, you get openminded that you reality can be completely false and you are just holding it true just because you are hardwired to do it. This creates opportunity to break your bubble and grow. Dont be INFJ , be something else and then come back full circle. It will be 10 x rewarding.

 

INFJ is just another framework. That's how I see it. I don't take it very seriously anymore. But it's fun to meet others with similar preferences to my own. My values when I was a teen were very different, so the first time I ever took the test I got INTP. But I deconstructed these social patterns as values because I realized they were an outgrowth of conditionings that weren't the most authentic for me. So, in the years since then I've usually tested as an INFJ. 

[Mad Cat]

@Natura Sonoris Mmm yes, thank you for pointing that out. Perfectionism can be very problematic, it has been a real struggle to come to terms with the world being fundamentally imperfect and that being an acceptable state of affairs. I can't even honestly say I am totally over it, but I am gradually improving at adopting a more pragmatic approach to life while still trying not to severely compromise the idealism I take such pride in. That's one of the most direct benefits meditation has had for me so far...

From the second half of your reply I get the sense that you don't fully understand the underlying mechanism of the MBTI system? Judging is not a bad thing, though it has a negative connotation to it. In fact creating judgments is necessary to parse information and respond to the world. Every type uses a mixture of judging and perceiving functions. Thinking and feeling are both judging functions, whereas sensing and intuition are both perceiving functions. INFJ's functions are as follows:

1. Introverted Intuition
2. Extroverted Feeling
3. Introverted Thinking
4. Extroverted Sensing

Since the conscious emergence and healthy development of the functions goes in a top-down order, it makes sense that you would evolve a more balanced judging approach by rounding out your feeling judgments with some good ol' organized introverted thinking. At a certain point on the path of development, the inferior (4th) function emerges from the depths of the unconscious and enters a power struggle with the dominant function. It seems that is what you are discussing when you say you need to "do the opposite of what and INFJ would do" and  "just get out of your head and do the actual thing" and that being the key to being "10x better". I agree with that; after all, for every type integrating the inferior function and balancing it with the dominant one is the key to self-actualization. The struggle lies in not letting the inferior function take full control and abandoning your dominant function, which is still ones greatest asset.

It's fascinating to see how different people develop within the same archetype... In my personal experience I have naturally and easily questioned anything and everything, including my own ego, for as long as I have been aware of it. This is how my perfectionism expresses itself, constantly checking and rechecking and digging deeper and deeper in search of ever elusive truth and a fuller understanding of life.

 

@Emerald Wilkins Counter-intuitive indeed, but a very insightful observation, since ESTP has extroverted sensing and introverted thinking as their dominant and auxiliary functions. It is exactly those two functions which must be worked on and integrated in the INFJ for them to reach their full potential.

@X-ways Hmm, I think the trap is more in believing that the specialness makes you better or worse than anyone else. I find it accurate to say that INFJ has a special role to play in society, but perhaps unique is a better word?

@The Alchemist Uhh, sorry to inform you, but you misunderstand. Everybody grows and changes all the time. Change does not preclude the ability to categorize people. In this framework there are 8 functions and everybody uses all of them depending on what the situation calls for. Still, everybody has a type, which is to say that everybody has certain functions which they are innately better at using. Self-development and the successful effort to strengthen your weaker functions, while laudable, does not mean you lack an archetype. Honestly the biggest flaw in this framework is not in the theory itself, but in the widely circulated internet tests which depend on the horrendously fallible method of self-reporting. Self-reporting leads people to believe their personality type is changing over time, when in reality their type preferences are totally static and it is actually the extent of self-knowledge which is changing over time.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Mad Cat

[Guest]

@Mad Cat No need to be sorry my friend, I am happy to get informed all the time. So do you mean I will forever have the same archetype personality no matter how much I change myself and how much Personal development I undertake? Let's say I do perfect self-reporting. Once a INFJ, always a INFJ?

[Mad Cat]

1 minute ago, The Alchemist said:

@Mad Cat No need to be sorry my friend, I am happy to get informed all the time. So do you mean I will forever have the same archetype personality no matter how much I change myself and how much Personal development I undertake? Let's say I do perfect self-reporting. Once a INFJ, always a INFJ?

Glad to hear that!
Yup, that's it. This understanding does not negate the importance of personal development, however, because an immature INFJ will have infinitely more life struggles and unconscious self-sabotaging behaviors than an actualized INFJ who has successfully grown and integrated their weaker functions. It also lends credence to the idea of having a life purpose which can be discovered, because static function preferences mean that there actually is an ideal role one can play in society.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Mad Cat said:

Glad to hear that!
Yup, that's it. This understanding does not negate the importance of personal development, however, because an immature INFJ will have infinitely more life struggles and unconscious self-sabotaging behaviors than an actualized INFJ who has successfully grown and integrated their weaker functions. It also lends credence to the idea of having a life purpose which can be discovered, because static function preferences mean that there actually is an ideal role one can play in society.

I used to get tested as a INFJ all the time before, but now I get tested INTJ (A) all the time. Basically I just changed from feeling to more thinking. While Introverted is only 51% for me and extraverted 49%, before it was like 70-30. Leo said in one of his videos that introvert and extrovert are only labels, and everyone is a born extravert. Just with some people their extraversion is obscured because of traumatic events or stuff like that. Basically you just need to free your extraversion again. As this tendency is going and I'm doing more and more work on myself, don't you think I can change even more? Because if now only 2% change in my extravert-introvert results then I will be a ENTJ or something like that. Regard you can reprogramm your sub-conscious mind to levels that seem hardly possible, so you should be able to literally change your personality archetype. Or do you think I am giving false self-reporting and I'm deluding myself? One way or the other, it would suck to be stuck in one archetype and I am not willing to accept that so easily.

[Miicat]

Not one myself, but dating an INFJ.

Very unusual, but inspiring. I love their ability to scan for authenticity and intentions in people.

I can relate to/understand/empathise with a bunch of the difficult challenges that come with being INFJ in this world, but I think you guys potentials and gifts are so uniquely wonderful and admirable. There are definitely people out there who are interested in your best interest even if it's sometimes hard to streer the focus off of the deeply painful and inconvenient realities.

 Sending love 

[Guest]

I used to be, or maybe I even am still a INFJ, but with my personal development I see myself floating inbetween around those four: INTJ, INFJ, ENFJ, ENTJ. Is this even possible?

[Mad Cat]

@The Alchemist I'm going to say decisively, no, you are only one type! It is certainly possible to program yourself to operate with any of the functions, but over-relying on functions which are not authentic to you is unsustainable and will result in burnout. If you want to clarify your type I DON'T recommend those self-tests or reading descriptions of the types, instead you should read about how the theory works and study the functions directly and trace back through the history of your development to discover which ones are most primary. The primary and auxiliary functions are the ones you develop in childhood, whereas the auxiliary and inferior emerge in later adolescence and adulthood, especially as you get in to self-development.

This is a page which explains the theory itself:
http://personalityjunkie.com/functional-stack-type-dynamics-theory/

and this page is an introduction to the functions:
http://personalityjunkie.com/functions-ni-ti-fi-si-ne-te-fe-se/

[Mad Cat]

The extroverted and introverted question is pretty complicated, because everyone has a mix of both, and behavior can vary drastically depending on which functions are pointed inwards and which are pointed outwards. Some 'I' types are more talkative than some 'E' types For example, INFJ is often mistaken as an 'E' type because extroverted feeling is very people-oriented and interdependent.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Mad Cat

[Clay]

INFJ here. I made a chart that shows a breakdown of the different personality types based on everyone's posts, on the main personality thread. Oddly enough, INFJ's are the most popular personality type on here, alongside INTP's.

[Epiphany_Inspired]

So stoked for all of the comments! @Natura Sonoris  thanks for being so thoughtful! All of the things that you suggested are things that I am working on for actualization (especially values vs. beliefs). I have really taken what you said to heart, at the same time, I agree with @Mad Cat, my fundamental operating system would likely be predominantly the same. @Natura Sonoris Funny that you mentioned Hitler in the "feels great to be like them" sentence though. I try to take Leo's advice not to think of anyone as "evil", but I am not that actualised yet (Hitler was a great inventor, but I definitely don't think of him as a role model). @X-ways I agree, it usually feels like it would be easier to be any other type, but perhaps like @Miicat said, maybe the potential within us will make it all worthwhile. @Mad Cat Oh perfectionism, my nemesis, the reality of what my hands/abilities can create never lives up to the visions in my mind. That said, I agree with you again, that other aspects of our inherent nature may actually benefit our actualization and help me resolve this. We have a unique role for sure! @The Alchemist I think you might be one of us just because of your apparent conflict alone, lol... One of my most ridiculous infj traits is constantly speaking in metaphors and analogies (like a cheesy poet or something, ha ha), I even take in information this way (convert knowledge, concepts etc to metaphors)... lol....

[asgard94]

I am INTP. The Logician! A great master mind. But not greater than Leo Gura, I must confess. I don't think that this personality test should be taken too seriously! First of all, because the human mind is not a constant. It always changes, it is flexible. You may be this now, but that tomorrow, and so on. . . And if you admire the current personality too much, you will miss a chance to grow and become something more. 

Edited February 28, 2016 by asgard94

[Guest]

@Epiphany_Inspired I will work hard towards a balanced personality, no matter what it takes. I don't want to have major weaknesses and I want to have as much strength points as possible. I don't know about you or the other, but being a INFJ brings a lot of suffering to people too. Also it takes skill to be a cheesy poet...it's not easy to be cheesy. Am I a poet now? Damn right I am! But that still doesn't mean I'm not a Mastermind, a Commander and an Architect and a Protagonist! The infinite power of the universe is at my hands, and my mind is mere marble that I can sculpt how I like. Petty limitations and shallow frameworks do not count for infinite beings like me. My Alchemy is stronger. All the years I struggled to be a INFJ and fought to break out of this madness, now are you going to tell me that my journey was in vein? Will I ever break out of the prison of my mind and be free like it's my birthright to be? Do I let this fight end now, my soul being locked behind the rusty bars of man-made constructs and concepts? You can classify me as much as you want on paper, but you can never lock my soul away in the cage of the INFJ personality type! 

All this is only a programm in my mind, I am a mere slave to this matrix we are living in. My infinity is just obscured, and it's on me to free it and break out of the boundries of the matrix! The brain just like the mind can reprogramm and reform itself. The years have formed the man, time has left scars that we cannot conceal, but even the scars will eventually be healed by effort and time itself. I shall break out of those classifications, no matter what it takes. I am not a INFJ, I have no identity. For I am only energy. One at a time, I tear the layers of bullshit from my true self until my light brings out the truth of what I am!  The journey is only just beginning!

[Natura Sonoris]

@Epiphany_Inspired What you take being good and evil is just some part of your personality or ego. Ego likes black and white thinking, that's how he survives in nature as far as I have observed. Leo talks about this but when you experience it, it is world view change  It just depends how much openminded you allow yourself to be. Personally i am open minded when it comes to Hitler. I am not a fan boy, one day i will read about him but i allow my self to see world from his perspective.

[Epiphany_Inspired]

@The Alchemist Awesome, tear those layers off and soar on wings of energy! Personally, I'm not that actualized yet. As difficult as it is to be infj, I like having this personality for the most part, and hope to use the positive aspects to help me on my journey...infj is not a prison to me. I was trying to make a silly Joke when I said you were "one of us" no intent to cage you...or classify...Etc. sorry... 

@Natura Sonoris I am learning to be open minded, I just haven't got to the Hitler level yet. I'm stoked for you that you have...I will aim for that too...