Introversion Or Issues To Resolve?

[Forestluv]

@HII To me, it sounds like you are replaying a story over and over, reinforcing the belief that the illusionary self is real.

You can let go of all those identity stories. . . and you do. I imagine there are times in life you are so immersed in an activity that you lose the sense of self. Perhaps while playing video games, or playing soccer or during sex. . . Then afterwards, the story of who "I am" starts up again. "Hmmm, that must mean I am "X" and because of "Y", I'm probably "Z".

I do it too,

[HII]

12 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

@HII To me, it sounds like you are replaying a story over and over, reinforcing the belief that the illusionary self is real.

You can let go of all those identity stories. . . and you do. I imagine there are times in life you are so immersed in an activity that you lose the sense of self. Perhaps while playing video games, or playing soccer or during sex. . . Then afterwards, the story of who "I am" starts up again. "Hmmm, that must mean I am "X" and because of "Y", I'm probably "Z".

I do it too,

I know I'm doing that. But stopping with this is easier said than done. 

Wanna know what the letters HII stand for? Huge Identity Issues. 

I don't really know what to make of your advice in this particular context though. Maybe you can clarify?

[HII]

@starsofclay Thank you for sharing your story. 

Some thoughts on the three layers you described:

On 24.10.2017 at 2:47 PM, starsofclay said:

1.  because of all the negative programming that I am currently trying to unravel takes too much energy to switch to a positive state when needed. The answer that I have found for this is that the positive state needs to be second nature (or even first nature) This is going to take time, and I have already been working on if for at least a year. At least if I can achieve this, I believe that I can reserve the energy that would be drained for this reason, and use it on other things. Actually I have hired someone to run the front end part time, and am already noticing a huge difference in my energy levels and psychology. 

What would happen if you showed your true emotional state to your customers?

Have you experimented with consciously directing your attention outwards? 

On 24.10.2017 at 2:47 PM, starsofclay said:

2.  I also find it draining to come up with words. I spend a lot of time in my head, but putting thoughts into words is kind of difficult for me.  A lot of times a customer may say something witty (or think they said something witty), and all I can do is smile and say... "yeah.... heh...". And then beat myself up later for not making a good connection.

I can relate to this a lot. But I noticed how much this depends on various states of mind and that I get more comfortable in such situations over time with practice.

On 24.10.2017 at 2:47 PM, starsofclay said:

3. I shy away from connecting to people. This is another one that I am working hard on. I don't know exactly the source of this, but hopefully I will get to the bottom of it one day. Meanwhile, I have been trying to force myself to do it (which is draining ), but I also want to want to connect with my customers and people in my life. The desire is there, and yet I constantly self-sabotoge. I often go the easy route and just avoid. 

Could it be that you are afraid that they will not like you or see you in a light that you don't want yourself to be seen if they find out who/what/how you are? Or that you don't want to show to them your struggles? Or could there be a connection to your period of being bullied?

[starsofclay]

@HII You've given me some good things to contemplate, thank you  

What would happen if you showed your true emotional state to your customers?
Nothing bad, I'm sure. To clarify, I have good days and bad days, and it all depends on my state of mind that day, as you said. I am not as I described every single day, but even just a few months ago, there were more bad days than good. My personal development has worked wonders with this. Now there are more good days than bad, or it is at least even. I have wondered if I am bi-polar, but I don't exactly get manic on my good days... 

Have you experimented with consciously directing your attention outwards? 
I will work on this... any tips? 

Could it be that you are afraid that they will not like you or see you in a light that you don't want yourself to be seen if they find out who/what/how you are? Or that you don't want to show to them your struggles? Or could there be a connection to your period of being bullied?
I may have to meditate on this, because it could be something deep in subconscious. There is definitely a fear of not being liked. I have a somewhat high voice for an adult male, and I've noticed it even gets higher when I get nervous. This goes all the way back to being bullied for my voice in school, and even to this day I get called ma'am on the phone or at the drive-thru, which always takes my confidence down a few notches. I am also stuck on people not finding out I am gay.... and my entire family on both sides think I am going to hell and pray that I change, because they love me and want to see me in heaven.  My mom is the only one who excepts me in that regard, she denounced her faith after splitting from my dad, who is  a preacher. My brother is also a preacher lol, so I am the black sheep.  I am ok with myself, and accept myself, but yet I don't want my customers knowing. A lot of them are christians, and my ego tells me what they think about such things, and hides it instead of letting nature take its course. This is all stuff I am working on. Slowly but surely. 

[HII]

@starsofclay Glad you appreciate it

On ‎01‎.‎11‎.‎2017 at 1:45 PM, starsofclay said:

Now there are more good days than bad, or it is at least even.

That's good to hear I'm sure you can move towards even more good days.

On ‎01‎.‎11‎.‎2017 at 1:45 PM, starsofclay said:

I have wondered if I am bi-polar, but I don't exactly get manic on my good days... 

I wondered that too about myself and once got half a diagnose like this. I also was not exactly manic on my good days, at least not in a dangerous way. Looking back, I'm glad I didn't start taking medication, which I probably would have done back then if it had been prescribed to me. I think medication is nonsense with many psychological disorders. At least cases like you and me are better off working out their inner and outer lives without. Many people find comfort in the story that there's a "genetically determined imbalance in their brain chemistry", because then it's no one's fault that they feel shitty about their lives. But it's never a solution to the problem at its root, because it makes it impossible for people to learn how to work with their real emotions. Spiritual and personal development practices seem much more powerful to me. It makes sense that good and bad days become less extreme and therefore average mood rises when you get more routine in your days for example.

Anyways, I'd be curious to hear about a few instances, in case you decide to try and show your emotions more openly to customers.

[HII]

On ‎01‎.‎11‎.‎2017 at 1:45 PM, starsofclay said:

Have you experimented with consciously directing your attention outwards? 
I will work on this... any tips? 

I was kind of reluctant to bring this up, because I didn't feel qualified to "give you advice" And because it seems like an obvious suggestion.

I guess any kind of awareness training which brings you more into the present moment would be beneficial. I don't have much experience or knowledge about this, so I'm more just making things up which make sense to me.

You can do formal sessions where you set a time, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, whatever, where you take an object and look at it, touch it, feel it, smell it, throw it around... Or you can do that with your surrounding in general. Or focus on just sight or just sound or just touch. And then notice how much or how little you find yourself rambling about anxieties or plans or memories or future projections in your thoughts.

Or you can go about your day and try to keep an awareness of that, while focusing on what's happening around you and your sensory inputs. Instead of worrying about things in your head, look at the people around you and try to take in what they're doing and focus on them instead of you in the interaction.

Just basic stuff like this might already lead to great improvements. After all, rambling in thoughts about "bad" things is just a habit.

I tried it yesterday: instead of putting on ear buds and reading something on my phone while sittin in the bus, I listened to all the noise and to people talking. Instead of thinking my regular thoughts and focusing on my emotions, I looked at people's faces and gestures and tried to read their emotions.

When I performed an action, I tried focusing on that action. It went quite well and only in the meantime I realized how I was rambling in my thoughts again about things which bared zero importance to the situation I was in.

I found that the more I directed my attention outwards, the easier it became to talk to people, because I wasn't busy all the time imposing negative judgments on myself from their imaginary perspectives, which only by that would have become true!

I ended up spontaneously joining my friends going to a climate demonstration at a coal mine near the city I live, which ended up being one of the most powerful experiences I recently had.

I had a camera with me and took some footage and now I want to do more things like this and talk to people about all the background information. I will also join a camp in the woods next to the coal mine for a few days when the next clearing starts in two weeks. I guess all this fills me with a "sense of purpose". I'm going with a completely different set of emotions through my day.

So THAT'S what happened for me, after I simply decided to direct my attention to the outside.

 

[dude]

@Caterpillar @ElenaO

Well that is not completely true. Empathy benefits you in social situations and because we live in social groups it has a real danger to it. When you are thrown out of a group you will have to survive on your own as a human that was nearly impossible. Empathy is hardwired in our brain when you look at apes they have empathy too. children that are just past age one show emphatic behavior and they don't know anything about a society at that time.

When a family member suddenly cries the baby and even pets like dogs and cats will try to calm him or her down by putting a head on his or her lap or some other way.

I do have to agree with you that empathy in this society is overrated. People hold as way more important than it actually is and in that sense people pleasers avoid rudeness at all cost while rudeness does have it's benefits.

[starsofclay]

 

22 hours ago, HII said:

I was kind of reluctant to bring this up, because I didn't feel qualified to "give you advice" And because it seems like an obvious suggestion.

Don't worry, I give a lot of unqualified advice around here. Yes, a lot of times it feels like you are just stating the obvious, but part of the human condition is that the obvious isn't always... obvious... until it's pointed out.  The first thing you mentioned sounds like a meditation that I never got around to doing, where you become completely absorbed in the object with no other thoughts, and then there's a variation of this where you quick-fire adjectives about the object over and over and over without ever saying exactly what the object is. 

[HII]

@starsofclay So did you try something out?

[starsofclay]

@HII Well, I do feel like I am opening up more to people... just making myself do it seems to help a lot haha. Fake it till you make it, as they say. I am looking for a therapist, because I think it will definitely open the door to opening up. I have already contacted 2 in my insurance network, but neither of them have gotten back with me 

I have tried listening to environment as you mentioned, it is pretty relaxing. have also been practicing mirror gazing a few times. It's a form of scrying but can also help to calm and quiet the mind, so I've heard, and teaches the eyes to stay focused yet relaxed. 

I'm getting really interested in image-streaming again... I tried this a few times last year before moving on, but it seems to be pulling me back in again. have you heard of it? they say it can raise your IQ but also improve visualization skills ten-fold. It's supposed to be really powerful stuff. 

[HII]

6 hours ago, starsofclay said:

I'm getting really interested in image-streaming again... I tried this a few times last year before moving on, but it seems to be pulling me back in again. have you heard of it?

No. Just watched a video on it, sounds very interesting. Thanks for recommending.

[Raphael]

@HII

I think more and more of introversion and extroversion as two extremes of a large spectrum. The extroversion extreme corresponds to people getting energized by stimulative situations and introversion extreme for people who need time alone to recharges.

I consider myself more as an introvert as I've had difficulties through my entire life to authentically 
communicate with peoples, however, sometimes I also want things that we usually associate more with extroverts like sex or popularity.

Most people in western society don't understand introversion and associate negative beliefs with it. 

For example,  I've recently received several messages on facebook from an uncle who wants to know if I was "OK" because I moved to a new city. I didn't answer to any of them, until he sends me the following: "You know, you should respond to people sometimes". Then I thought like "Shit, how am I going to explain to him what I'm thinking?" So I started wondering how can I explain quickly and without being rough what's in my mind. And I wrote the following:

"There's no need to feel uncomfortable or angry because I don't answer. There's nothing bad in that. The fact is that:

- Either I do not have time
- Either I don't want, which I think I have the right
- Either I don't want to have a discussion to just say "everything is okay"

It's a way of thinking that most people don't understand and interprets as negative

That's everything
"

Notice the . And he answered the following:

"Of course you have the right to not answer because you think you don't need anyone. Good continuation"

Failed. I felt very disappointed as I tried to explain to him what I'm thinking, but he didn't get it. And he interprets my message as I believe I don't need anyone.

I've noticed that I also think speaking like that is rough when another introvert does it, but I often fail to see it in myself.

The last point that I want to make is that I actually think a lot of introverted people are shy. I grew up as a shy kid, and I still have a little of this issue today.
Shy people consume a lot of energy by over-analyzing social situations, stressing, and trying to control everything.
This is why they get tired around peoples and have more energy by being alone, that's also why society and themselves think that they are introverted.

This also explains why when a person fixes its shyness, it can gradually switch from being an introvert to an extrovert.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Raphael

[starsofclay]

On 11/25/2017 at 2:29 PM, HII said:

No. Just watched a video on it, sounds very interesting. Thanks for recommending.

haha, I guess it was off topic... but I only have limited time, so I practice things that interest me the most at the time. Getting some very interesting results with image streaming, but it's not for everyone. Let me know if you would like any tips on getting started. Its a great way to learn to communicate with yourself/"subconscious", which is bit taboo on here I'm sure... some folks may say its just mind candy for the ego, but I don't care... my ego has a sweet tooth. 

Work is going great though, I am being very mindful of my choices and actions. It feels good to let people in. It's not that I was completely shut off before I made that previous post, but was only commenting on things that I noticed I am having issues with, as part of my self-development. 

[Faceless]

You have created an image of yourself. What u should be like. How you should act. What position or role in society your should play. This image is a projection that is abstracted from the fact of how you actually are. This abstraction “the movement from what is actual to an idea, what should be” is creating a never ending conflict of expectations to be met. If this image of how I should be is not so it causes pain, sorrow, anxiety, and so on. We assume we should be better in what ever way we project because society demands conformity and imitation to its inhabitants to engage in a role. When we don’t want to conform to a path that has been chosen we close our selves off from the outside. We then become uncomfortable in the presence of others or social settings. We create images about ourselves and images of what we think others are projecting about us. This fear of public opinion creates a division between ourselves and another. If there is a division then fear is imminent. 

In this thinking creates this image making process. If there is no image there is no conflict between what is and what should be. 

From what I have witnessed in myself and others is that introvert or extrovert both can be in states of conflict and there energy decreases similarly. The extrovert just ignores it or gets used to this process. The introvert sees that this energy is replenished when alone time is granted.

To me balance is key. I personally like to be alone 90% of the time. People call me introvert to. But to me a mind that is alone can be diligent in the necessesity of self inquiry of our own thought processes. If we can’t identify these images and there abstract nature this process goes undetected and we start to suffer the consequences like, depression, anxiety, fear, anger, and so on.

If there is an image between You and I There is no relationship. There is only a relationship of images. 

It’s that simple yet it seems to be otherwise.

Edited December 6, 2017 by Faceless

[Dan Arnautu]

@Girzo That's a little too simplistic. Introverts differ from extroverts even in the way they THINK. For example, you can watch Carl Jung's speech on introverted intuitives on youtube. Introverts tend to have very vivid internal imagery.

[Faceless]

Do we think differently? 

[Faceless]

How do we know we think differently? 

How do we know how others think according to Mr Jungs ideas, theory’s, and conclusions? 

Is this something we need another’s account of to find an answer to? 

 

Edited December 7, 2017 by Faceless

[Joseph Maynor]

I have always been an introvert, although some periods of my life more-so than others.  The problem with me is that I get a lot of peace just being by myself.  I don't feel like I want to entertain someone else.  That's what it feels like to me to be around other people.  I feel like I have to entertain them, like I have to put whatever I was thinking about on-ice until the interaction parts-ways.  See -- I am always working on something, always thinking.  Even when I am not thinking, I'm just enjoying the silence.  I tend to feel vibes of manipulation when I'm around other people, and I just would rather not deal with that on a regular basis.  I have no problem doing it, it's just not my preferred default-position.  My preferred default-position is where I get to be me and only have to be me.  So, for me, I am an introvert because most people just slow me down.  I have too many important things to do with my time -- and I don't want to compromise too much of it.  

Edited December 14, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[WaterfallMachine]

1. What is your personal experience with this?

Well, sure being stressed and shy around people makes me more withdrawn, but even when I enjoy being with people, I feel drained after enough time has passed. It feels like I’m sensitive and more easily overwhelemed to high arousal emotions like excitement. I’m more comfortable with being more mellow and relaxed . . . which being alone in quiet spaces allow. My thoughts seem to slow down and I can’t keep up with fast paced conversations anymore, and my alone time allows me to focus deeply and slowly on one thing.

When I’m drained socially, it’s like I’ve been running on a track for a long long long time. My breath speeds up. My legs can get a bit noodly. It seems like the world is squeezing me in.  I get worn out and can get cranky if I don’t give myself enough solitude. I get the need to think through ideas, beliefs and decisions in life and without that, I end up grumpy.

2. What is a general explanation of why introverts/extroverts get drained/energized?

If you google introvert and extrovert brains, there really is an inborn difference. In the book Quiet by Susan Cain — a world famous speaker on introverts — a psychologist exposed babies to loud sounds and colorful sights. The babies who were distressed to too much stimuli were more likely to grow up as introverts and the babies who weren’t often grew up extroverted. Introverts are shown to absorb more information in their brains — making them sensitive to too much risk and exposure to people compared to extroverts but also allowing them to observe and reflect upon more information in comparison.

Extroverts are more quick in decisions, allowing them to catch opportunites better but also be more predisposed to making uninformed decisions — such as being more likely to have an addiction to drugs. Introverts think more slowly, so they can’t adapt to the moment as quickly or be more afraid but can prevent risks and observe issues no one has noticed.

 

[TriteNTrue]

@HII I noticed that I am drained in social situations because I'm self-conscious, specifically about my accent. Though as I write this I may have to visit that notion...

Essentially, when I'm around people when I can be my authentic self and speak freely, I tend to get drained less quickly.  But I do need alone time afterwards to recharge and unpack my thoughts. 

 

*I think I think too much.