Introversion Or Issues To Resolve?

[HII]

Before people get the wrong idea of what I'm about to say here, I just wanna say that I'm aware that there's this (probably unhealthy) tendency in our society of favoring extraversion over introversion or even pathologizing introversion. That's not what I intend to do here. I'm trying to get a deeper understanding of myself and how introversion actually works.

So there's this idea that introverts tend to get drained from social situations and then need to "recharge" by being alone, whereas extraverts tend to get energized from social situations and get bored and then drained when they are alone.

Judging from my general behaviour over pretty much all my life, it seems reasonable to label myself as an introvert. 

However, over the past few years, I started reflecting on this more and noticed the following tings:

I do often get drained from social situations and need some time alone before I feel able to be social again.

But, when I take a closer look at why I get drained, it's always because of a specific problem I have with the situation or with myself. I tend to want to hide my problems or the fact that I have a problem at all and that hiding takes a lot of energy, which leaves little left to interact and then I beat myself up for not being able to interact, which takes even more energy and that's basically how everything goes downhill and I end up just waiting out feeling miserable until I can finally be alone again. (I'd love to give some concrete examples to make this more tangible, but right now I can only think of the recent ones from the last few days, which lead me to write this post and they're kind of too embarrassing for me to tell them here right now  I will try to post some concrete examples in the future.)

When there is no problem and I feel comfortable and safe in a social situation that I'm in, I do in fact get a lot of energy from being with people and talking and engaging in activities together with them. 

When I have issues with myself, I tend to stay away from social situations. When I'm fine with myself, I tend to seek out social situations and doing stuff together.

All this got me curious about what will happen if I work on resolving my issues bit by bit and learn how to integrate them, so that I can accept myself more infront of other people. Time will tell. 

What I'd be interested in hearing from you, are the two following things:

1) What is your personal experience with this?
Can you pinpoint why exactly you get drained? Does it happen when everything is totally fine? Or is there something that if it was different, you wouldn't get drained?
If you keep in mind what you've read here and take a look at why you get drained the next time it happens, what do you find?

2) What could be some general explanations of why introverts/extraverts get drained/energized?
I mean, stated as it usually is, this idea is just a mere description. And, at least to me, it doesn't seem like a very useful one. Because it tells you little about what is actually going on there. Merely putting labels at people's behaviour doesn't explain it. So what are the actual mechanisms which determine the emotional landscape and the behaviour of so-called introverts and extraverts respectively?
 

(Didn't quite know which subforum to post this in, hope it fits at least somewhat here.)

Edited October 21, 2017 by HII

[HII]

I'm aware that there's this book "Quiet" by Susan Cain and I've seen her TED talk. Haven't read the book though, just looked at its content at the corresponding wiki article. So I don't know if there's anything helpful in there in terms of explanations. Has someone read it? 

I'm also aware of Eysenck's hypothesis that introversion/extraversion on a neurophysiological level comes down to the activity of the ascending reticular activating system (ARAS), which from what I remember is supposed to be responsible for how information is filtered before it gets processed in the brain; so if there's not much filtered out and you have to process tons of information all the time, you're overwhelmed more easily and tend to be more turned inward, since you're busy all the time sorting out what's going on inside your head, whereas when very much is filtered out, you're devoid of stimuli and therefore turn outward seeking for more, which leads to more extraverted behaviour. This seems to make a lot of sense in and of itself, but doesn't explain much in the context of these social issues in my case. Or is there a connection between the ARAS and negative emotion, such that I'm also more susceptible to negative emotion and then tend to freak out more easily over the thought that other people might judge me negatively for the stupid problems that I have? Or are these independent factors? Anyone with some knowledge of psychology or neuroscience who can say something about this?

[LaucherJunge]

@HII
I am very introverted and for me this doesn't mean that I am awkward around people or anything, just that I as you already stated get drained from it. Doesn't really matter if I am around people who I can be authentic with. I think what drains me the most is to follow along with what the group wants to do at any given time, the lack of control over what we are going to do, of course I can ask the others if they want to do a certain thing but at the same time I have the empathy to see that the thing I want to do is rarely what the group would want. Recently I tried to go my way and convinced my freinds to have a deep talk together but it ended up going in a very shallow direction in matters of subjects we were talking about and in the end it got very boring for me and drained me to listen.

So my hypothesis on what might be the cause of introversion is basically the concept of energetic vampires, the activites they want to do drawn you, while they enjoy them and get energized from having people adding and losing their energies into the mix.
That's why usually the mindless people, which people might label as "dumb" tend to be more extroverted, because they lack the empathy to see that what they want to do with the group is not really welcome for some. While the introverts tend to think about such things and so their will to take action into a certain direction is at the very least delayed to the point that others are always faster in taking the initiative.

[Nahm]

@HII what if introverts are more connected spiritually by default and therefore find the experience of not being alone foreign? 

[Girzo]

I don't feel like there is a real difference between introverts and extroverts. In my experience it's more like a state, which can be changed according to conditions. Your body can run on carbs or fats. I think it's the same for the emotional part of you. It can run either on social interactions or solitude.

So that drain that some introverts experience is just that they didn't have enough time to change their power source and are low on fuel. It takes some time. In the same sense extroverts can feel immense boredom and depression when alone, because they are spending their power reserves and can't refuel from being in solitude unless they change their operating mode.

I think that introversion is like a default mode for people, just like carbs diet. It's possible to change into extrovert, just as it is possible to live off a keto diet, but it requires effort.

[mathieu]

@HII in my experience, i can really classify my own as introverted. What i have learned is that a person is not an introvert all of the time. It really fluctuates. Although, in general, you can feel where on the introversion-extrovertion scale you are.

I remember a video of Leo about Introvert vs Extrovert, it was a good video on this topic. It was like you can get and adopt The Advantages of both personality types. you can have them both, and use the skills of each personality to use in every situation of your life. the video is a must watch. lots of details there.

I also want to point out that many people treat introversion as the not ideal type. They sometimes treat it as bad and associate it with low self-esteem. But self-esteem is different, though it is a critical skill too. it is the confidence in one's own worth or abilities.

A person can really be introverted with high self-esteem, or introverted with low self-esteem. same with extroverts with different levels of self-esteem. Leo has a video about it too, but that was pretty old : )

A good book recommendation is The Six Pillars of Self-Esteem by Nathaniel Branden. yeah the six pillars is amazing : )

[HII]

@LaucherJunge Thanks for your perspective and your insights.

On 21.10.2017 at 1:42 PM, LaucherJunge said:

I think what drains me the most is to follow along with what the group wants to do at any given time, the lack of control over what we are going to do

Okay, so this fits my suspicion that there's a specific reason for why you get drained, you're not just getting drained because "that's the way you are as an introvert".

On 21.10.2017 at 1:42 PM, LaucherJunge said:

of course I can ask the others if they want to do a certain thing but at the same time I have the empathy to see that the thing I want to do is rarely what the group would want. Recently I tried to go my way and convinced my freinds to have a deep talk together but it ended up going in a very shallow direction in matters of subjects we were talking about and in the end it got very boring for me and drained me to listen.

This time it might not have worked as well, but you can learn from that and try better next time. Or be with people who are more in line with your values. At least it's always two options that you have, going with the group or standing up for what you actually value at that particular moment. Whether that means leaving the group or trying to influence it in a direction where you could continue to thrive. You're not just doomed to suffer from being around people too much and get drained and then have to recharge because that's the way you are as an introvert. To me this sounds like a good thing to know and at least I know for myself that I want to try the different options and see what works for me. To me it makes more sense to see the socially active/engaging option as a skill which I can train and which is not "against my nature" or anythin like that. 

On 21.10.2017 at 1:42 PM, LaucherJunge said:

So my hypothesis on what might be the cause of introversion is basically the concept of energetic vampires, the activites they want to do drawn you, while they enjoy them and get energized from having people adding and losing their energies into the mix.
That's why usually the mindless people, which people might label as "dumb" tend to be more extroverted, because they lack the empathy to see that what they want to do with the group is not really welcome for some. While the introverts tend to think about such things and so their will to take action into a certain direction is at the very least delayed to the point that others are always faster in taking the initiative.

Again, I see no need for playing the victim here. If someone always wants to do shallow activities while never having any empathy for the group, why hang around them in the first place? There's enough people around who aren't like that, so solitude is not the only other option. Instead of blaming "energetic vampires", you might as well ascribe to introverts a lack of assertiveness/ability to stand up for themselves, lack of ability to take initiative, lack of honesty, lack of communication skills, lack of confidence. This perspective seems much more empowering to me, because I can accept it and say okay, I suck at these things, but I can improve and I can shape my social life the way I want and I don't have to "get drained because I'm an introvert". 

 

@Nahm I'm afraid I don't get what you're saying. I hope you can explain:

On 21.10.2017 at 2:50 PM, Nahm said:

what if introverts are more connected spiritually by default and therefore find the experience of not being alone foreign? 

Can you specify what you mean by 'connected spiritually'? And why it is that you would find the experience of not being alone foreign in that case?

 

@Girzo Do you have any hypotheses about why things would be as you described? Something concrete that doesn't rely on mere metaphors and analogies? Why would there be these two "operating modes", how exactly is solitude and company "used as fuel" and how exactly do you apply effort to switch between the modes?

 

@mathieu Thanks for your recommendations. I just watched Leo's video, hadn't seen it before, though nothing really new for me in there. At least he talks about possibilities of embodying the benefits of both types.

As I said above, getting drained in social situations for me is often connected with low self esteem. So I want to work on that, I'll go watch that video too and probably get the audiobook of The Six Pillars and see if I find it useful. 

Since you didn't say anything regarding my questions: Do you get drained in social situations? If so, why/how does it happen?

[Moreira]

I've been always very introverted. There have been periods where i forced myself to socialize, be more talkative and I've become more comfortable in social situations.

But when I've cut social practice whatever cause I had ( being ill and spending days at home, working hard or studying, concentrated in my career) My mind loses all the improvent at the speed of light. After 3-4 days without socializing I barely can talk fluidly and social anxiety comes back. It's like my natural state.

I have the theory that this behaviour is transfered genetically by our parents.

[Girzo]

@HII my hypothesis is that it is that way because of survival. There are certain risks and benefits associated with being solo and living in a group. In a group you have more possibilities, but also you can be cheated and you have to fight your way through a social ladder. Being solo on the other gives you more independence, and is also harder, but in a different way. In a group you have to struggle emotionally, on your own you have to struggle physicaly. That's why I believe that introversion is the default mode, because physical survival comes first and social needs are after that.

So, assume you're introvert. You will get drained in social situations, because you need to analyze things you are not used to analyze, like others' mimics, voice tone, behaviour, social position, gestures, kinesthetics, etc. Basically, all the building blocks of a society. It requires mental and physical effort, because perspective and chemical balance in your body changes in order to fit in new conditions. You will "burn fuel" on that. "Refueling" happens automatically when you are not using it.

Then assume you are consistent with socializing, your environment is full of people and encourages you to become extraverted. And then something in your life changes, let's say you become isolated in the mountains. You will feel mad, because you have all those brain structures for socializing and nobody to socialize with. They need to be rebuild again and that will require some time and energy.

I believe that on a high enough level of psychological development there is an optimal configuration that's both introverted and extroverted at the same time, but you have to go through all that mess in order to discover and achieve it.

Have I answered your questions? 

[mathieu]

3 hours ago, HII said:

Since you didn't say anything regarding my questions: Do you get drained in social situations? If so, why/how does it happen?

in my case, yes. I get drained too. But it really depends on every situation. Socializing with family is different from socializing with friends, classmates, colleagues or small kids. They vary from time to time depending on your current energy levels, status of your emotions, your sense of purpose on doing things, the topics involved, people involved, and so many things.. not really constant. The key skill is knowing how the "you" works and how it responds to circumstances, mastering your psychology. then, you can handle yourself in almost all different situations in life with the right intentions.

cheers!

[LaucherJunge]

@HII Don't get me wrong that is not at all a victim role because I don't see a problem with solitude and yes in fact the other option to improve also exists but I don't have that much interest in imporving on such matters, I find that I have more important things to invest time into. It is just a matter of your priorities, basically what is your life purpose in the first place.

What also has to be mentioned is that your above points about the lacking abilities of an introvert are not correct neccessairly, they can be correct in some or many cases. But just because someone doesen't use such skills doesen't mean that he doesen't posses them apart from that it is more honest to stay true to yourself and stand by your emapthy than trying to ignore that part of yourself. I would say that I am actually more confident than those friends because of my year long self actualization but this doesen't mean I want to overshadow everyone. That is the line between confidence and selfishness.

Edited October 24, 2017 by LaucherJunge

[starsofclay]

@HII I have been an introvert since 6th grade. I am now 32. Before 6th grade, I was a happy, outgoing, talkative kid that annoyed the shit out of everyone. And then 6th grade hit (possibly pre-puberty) and everything changed. I became very self-conscious. It didn't help that I was bullied starting from 6th grade until I left in 10th. (The bullying started because I was in choir, singing soprano because my voice hadn't changed yet, and I went to a very backwoods small country school) Even after I quit choir, the damage was done, and I suffered through 5 years of constant bullying and no friends. Luckily, I was not too socially damaged, and by the time I went to college I made lots of friends and was really surprised that it was so easy. I broke out of my shell a bit, but still remained somewhat introverted. 

Fast forward to today, and now I own a business in the service industry.  It's definitely not the most ideal thing for an introvert, and it broke me down the first couple of years. I would go home completely drained, unable to even move off of my chair. I could do nothing on the weekends because every second was necessary to recover from the previous week, only in order to take one the coming week. It was a miserable, miserable cycle. I did pinpoint a lot of my draining from dealing with customers, good and bad. The bad customer interactions drained me for the obvious reasons, but I was so screwed up I even shied away from the good interactions. It was and still is very draining to try and stay positive and have to come up with some small talk, even though my customers are really in my shop for no more than 5-10 minutes at a time. 

I think there are different layers of why this is draining for me.

1.  because of all the negative programming that I am currently trying to unravel takes too much energy to switch to a positive state when needed. The answer that I have found for this is that the positive state needs to be second nature (or even first nature) This is going to take time, and I have already been working on if for at least a year. At least if I can achieve this, I believe that I can reserve the energy that would be drained for this reason, and use it on other things. Actually I have hired someone to run the front end part time, and am already noticing a huge difference in my energy levels and psychology. 

2.  I also find it draining to come up with words. I spend a lot of time in my head, but putting thoughts into words is kind of difficult for me.  A lot of times a customer may say something witty (or think they said something witty), and all I can do is smile and say... "yeah.... heh...". And then beat myself up later for not making a good connection. This leads me to my next layer:

3. I shy away from connecting to people. This is another one that I am working hard on. I don't know exactly the source of this, but hopefully I will get to the bottom of it one day. Meanwhile, I have been trying to force myself to do it (which is draining ), but I also want to want to connect with my customers and people in my life. The desire is there, and yet I constantly self-sabotoge. I often go the easy route and just avoid. 

With all of those combined, you can see that it is not particularly good for business, haha. I am really hard on myself though, so I don't think it is nearly as noticeable to the people around me as it is to myself.... that's the paradox I see with self-development. In order to do it, you must be hard on yourself, even though everyone else is telling you that you are too hard on yourself. 

Also, I have wondered if introvert/extrovert is a mix of nature and nourishment. Some believe it is one or the other, but I think even if the brain was born wired a certain way, it can be changed. I am my mother and my father, and yet I am neither of them. 

 

Edited October 24, 2017 by starsofclay

[ElenaO]

On 24/10/2017 at 0:16 AM, Caterpillar said:

I believe that introverts get drained because they have too much empathy. And most introverts stay introverts their entire life because they believe that empathy is a "good" thing. 

That's an interesting point. I know that I am, for instance, overly empathetic in life. And I do notice that this doesn't actually help me - it hurts me. But I would like to hear your definition of empathy as a negative trait.

[smd]

1) What is your personal experience with this?
Can you pinpoint why exactly you get drained? Does it happen when everything is totally fine? Or is there something that if it was different, you wouldn't get drained?
If you keep in mind what you've read here and take a look at why you get drained the next time it happens, what do you find?

Answer:  When I feel tired of being around my friends. Annoyed at what they're saying or just
feeling uncomfortable in their presence, as if they were invading my personal space, or even
in crowds, that is when I've reached the draining point.

Everything can be totally fine, but my mind will find some annoyance somewhere to turn it off.
For instance, I might be talking to someone & they start talking about something work-related.
So I'll start thinking "We're not at work. Why the hell is he talking about work?  He must live
there. I need to cut this conversation & leave."

Another point of draining is that I stop talking.  I ain't got nothing to say so I just dummy up,
which can go on for hours.

2) What could be some general explanations of why introverts/extraverts get drained/energized?
I mean, stated as it usually is, this idea is just a mere description. And, at least to me, it doesn't seem like a very useful one. Because it tells you little about what is actually going on there. Merely putting labels at people's behaviour doesn't explain it. So what are the actual mechanisms which determine the emotional landscape and the behaviour of so-called introverts and extraverts respectively?

Answer:  I read a lot & surf the web. No reason to be around people to do that.  When I go out,
I try to engage & be social, but it doesn't always work.  I can be hanging around at crowds and
barely get out but a few sentences of conversation & then there is no talk. Just me looking around
at the crowds trying to figure out what to do next, if anything.  Perhaps drink a few beers & remain
quiet, just like when I'm alone.

Unlike some that have mentioned here, I'm not sure I always have empathy for others.  Usually
in a social context my thoughts turn to the immediate such as, "Why is this guy/gal not talking
to me?  Hell with them, I'll just stare off in this direction or watch the crowd. Maybe something
will happen."  Or "If nothing happens, I'll try this other venue in about 30 minutes to see if it's
more interesting."

As an introvert, I think I can get burned out from going out & wonder if I need to stay indoors
even longer so that I can make going out feel more refreshing when I get around to it.  If the 
process of going out & socializing loses its newness or gets boring, then I'll stop doing it.
I'd say five years ago, it used to feel new, scary, & a lot of fun.  Nowadays, it feels stale
& it never escalated to anything worthwhile, except 3 times last year.  Nothing this year.

But I also think that, when it feels like it's stale, when the friends & love interests you've
made have moved on, that sticking to it will make help bring more friends & love interests your
way from just showing up & being there now, rather than thinking about the past.

[HII]

@Moreira Can you describe one specific situation where you had social anxiety which made you behave in an introverted way?  

[HII]

On 24.10.2017 at 0:19 AM, Girzo said:

Have I answered your questions? 

Yeah, makes much more sense now. 

[Moreira]

19 hours ago, HII said:

@Moreira Can you describe one specific situation where you had social anxiety which made you behave in an introverted way?  

basically when my flaws in social skills are going to be evident, I act introverted. The less I interact the less risk to show my flaws and unconfidence in this field.

[Nahm]

@HII The set up is at some points a damn near impossible to swallow miracle. The punchline is you are all that is. Imagine being eternal all there is, there is no other, forever. Then you create a different yet same you, a human you, with a veil to your true nature. SO, you are lost af, and yet could never be lost. Then, out of that, another human merely utters a single sound to you, and you perceive it came from a second entity. It might take you a minute to adjust.

[HII]

On ‎28‎.‎10‎.‎2017 at 4:01 PM, Moreira said:

basically when my flaws in social skills are going to be evident, I act introverted. The less I interact the less risk to show my flaws and unconfidence in this field.

So you're just having some unnecessary stupid issues with your self image? And your behavior is genetically inherited? How?

 

[HII]

On ‎24‎.‎10‎.‎2017 at 2:01 AM, mathieu said:

in my case, yes. I get drained too. But it really depends on every situation.

Can you describe one specific situation? Like an event that actually happened in your life?