Confused About Self-development As A Whole

[Alexo45]

The whole self-development thing is kind of making no sense to me anymore. By making that statement, i'm talking about myself personally, and i don't want to shoot anyone in the foot by saying that self-development in general is bullshit. Not at all is it bullshit, immo it's even necessary, and i feel like it's a period every human being will go through in his life sooner or later.

Anyways, 

These last weeks i've been digging myself into non-duality like a headless chicken, and looking back to my self-development journey i've made so far, it's all good and it changed me as a total in a positive way, but it's kind of weird to go any further with it right now. Thinking about stopping to self-develop myself feels wrong, but with the knowledge i've gained over the past week, continuing it and shaping myself into and ego driven form just doesn't feel right anymore. I know life goes as it go's, and that the universe choose me to do this work to get me to this point at this time, but right now it doesn't make any sense anymore. I've came to a point where i feel like i just have to "let go" and enjoy the ride, wherever it takes me, without trying to manipulate my way into something/someone the universe doesn't want me to become.

I'm not sure if this post makes sense, but i had to get this out of my system. 
Let me know your thoughts.

[TimStr]

@Alexo45

Firstly: You're perfectly alright. I guess many of the folks here including myself have been through a phase that is similar to what you are discribing. 

When you get into existential territory and start to question meaning itself it's possible that all of life (and ego driven personal development) suddenly looses meaning for a while. Your mind is learning right now that meaning is something artificially constructed. Your ego is triggered by this and wants you to stop, because egos thrive on having meaning. But in fact there doesn't have to be a you for personal development to happen.  

If you hold that paradox of "development is meaningful" vs. "there is nothing to develope" you will reach a stage where you find, that becoming a great human being is highly spiritual. That's usually when the compassion aspect of enlightenment kicks in. 

[TimStr]

@Alexo45

Also, check this video:

 

[Alexo45]

38 minutes ago, TimStr said:

@Alexo45

Also, check this video:

 

 

Thanks for your answer, and the reminder of this video. I saw this video a long time ago, but seemed to forget about it.

 

53 minutes ago, TimStr said:

Your ego is triggered by this and wants you to stop, because egos thrive on having meaning. 

You might be right on my ego being triggered. Lately "I" am getting very scared on my journey, because i feel like i'm leaving something behind. I have this anxious feeling of losing control, when i know there is nothing to control at all. 

[Leo Gura]

In practice what will happen is you will stop doing personal dev and you will start to stagnate.

Doesn't matter how enlightened you get, there is always more work to do on yourself and your life. It never ends. That's life in a nutshell: evolution.

The key here is to just make growth and learning an everyday part of your life. Besides enlightenment you should be working of your career, your infrastructure, your education, your health, your nutrition, your relationships, your moral inadequecies, your skills, etc, etc.

[Preetom]

@Leo Gura

Is evolution an inherent drive in reality or is it just another perspective we all take it as the God's commandment without questioning.

After self-realization (complete dis-identification from ego/karma/personality), is there really any concept of evolution left other than pure being for it's own sake?

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Wormon Blatburm said:

What does this even mean might I ask? Why do we need to focus on our career, our education, relationships, nutrition etc.  I know people look up to you and hold you in such high regard, but no matter how much books you've read, you can't just downright tell people what they should be doing in life? 

IMO you can't conceptualize life like that and put it in a little box of "self actualization" because our journeys are much more complex than that, and while these techniques are helpful when you want to improve some aspect of your life, trying to imply that this is all that it's about is the biggest load of crap I've heard in a while.

A human being has certain biological and psychological needs. Life as a human being means you gotta do certain things. Well, you don't HAVE TO, but you would probably feel best if you did.

Of course you don't have to follow anything I say. I am just pointing out the obvious building blocks of a good life.

2 hours ago, Preetom said:

@Leo Gura

Is evolution an inherent drive in reality or is it just another perspective we all take it as the God's commandment without questioning.

After self-realization (complete dis-identification from ego/karma/personality), is there really any concept of evolution left other than pure being for it's own sake?

Relative physical reality as humans experience it is consantly evolving. You can disidentify with Maya, but Maya is still happening and you are still gonna have to deal with it.

[krazzer]

@Alexo45 at some point you will realize that going with the flow and accepting life as it is can go hand in hand with having goals and improving yourself. 

Would you stop improving your character in a game, even though you know it's not you?

[Leo Gura]

@Wormon Blatburm Do whatever you want.

Just don't be surprised when you come crying.

[Leo Gura]

29 minutes ago, Wormon Blatburm said:

run around like a chicken with its head cut off thinking there's something you need to "fix" about yourself 24/7.

Self-actualization isn't about "fixing" yourself. It's about the joy the building a great life.

If you notice, I don't really talk about abnormal psychology. I'm not really interested in fixing neurosis. I'm passionate about growth and reaching the highest levels of human potential. "Fixing myself" doesn't inspire me at all.

Eventually you learn to enjoy the growth process. It's only a burden when you're first starting off because society has conditioned and addicted you so much.

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, unknownworld said:

If you are at peace with what is, and don't experience much psychological suffering, then this advice clearly is NOT true.

Except you are not at peace, otherwise you wouldn't be here. I aim my advice at people who are climbing the mountain. If you're already sitting on top of it, well, enjoy. That means you've already done what I am trying to guide you towards.

Quote

Also, you are contradicting your own advice. You say that money, sex, etc are distractions, and eventually one would not find much satisfaction in those(consciousness work is far more enjoyable), yet it is a big part of "self development". Business, career, relationships, are exactly those. 

That is the paradox of life.

Nothing matters, yet everything matters. Of course the mind will use precisely those things as addictions and distractions which you need most in your life.

It would be way too easy to overcome an addiction or distraction if you could avoid it entirely, like cigarettes. It's much harder with things like success, sex, relationships, or food because you practically can't avoid them. Even a Zen monk needs to successfully earn his food and watch out for his nutrition.

This is a long growth process. You will outgrow many old goals and motivations over the years, depending on where you start. Most people are not anywhere close to consciousness work. They need to plug the gaping holes in their Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs first. As you engage in business, career, relationships, food, etc, you will start to learn why they are not ultimately satisfying. Those are important lessons upon which a deeply spiritual life can then be built. And you will not leave those things entirely, you will transcend and INCLUDE them.

[eskwire]

2 hours ago, Wormon Blatburm said:

The only thing I disagee with is that a good thing to do is to make self actualization the primary goal of your life and run around like a chicken with its head cut off thinking there's something you need to "fix" about yourself 24/7.

Nobody is telling you to think about it this way. That is your interpretation of it, likely filtered through your own neuroses.

I think about it that way from time to time, but then realize I don't have to. The insights, techniques, and motivation are here for me as I go through ups and downs, interest and disinterest. 

If you are feeling like a chicken with its head cut off, you are at an early stage of development, doing all of this from a negative place. Step back and regroup. Make sure you are growing from a place of joy.

Good luck! And you were being pretty disrespectful to someone who has changed your life so much. Why are you so angry? Why does one perceived contradiction about should statements make you fly off the handle? You're not in Leo prison. Nobody is forcing anything on you and you obviously keep coming back here. Shit, it's free content you can stream anytime!

[dorg]

On 10/21/2017 at 10:10 PM, Alexo45 said:

Lately "I" am getting very scared on my journey, because i feel like i'm leaving something behind. I have this anxious feeling of losing control, when i know there is nothing to control at all. 

@Alexo45 you will not be leaving behind anything that you will regret. 

You now can choose either to be mindful (aware) or remain in the world of the ego mind/thought. This is actually the only conscious choice that can be made, any other choice would only be made by ego and that would result in you staying in the ego mind of judgement and fear/anxiety.

Being aware/mindful involves being in the moment as much as you can, and notice what 'pulls you out', or tries to. Whatever it appears to be that is pulling you, it is the ego, that insists - for it's own self survival (your own imagined-self survival) - that you stay as you think you are, rather than move to a higher consciousness.

You have a form of control in/as the higher consciousness in that you are in effect 'controlling' thought/emotion by 'holding on' to the higher consciousness.

With best wishes,

Edited October 23, 2017 by dorg

[Alexo45]

6 hours ago, dorg said:

@Alexo45 you will not be leaving behind anything that you will regret. 

You now can choose either to be mindful (aware) or remain in the world of the ego mind/thought. This is actually the only conscious choice that can be made, any other choice would only be made by ego and that would result in you staying in the ego mind of judgement and fear/anxiety.

Being aware/mindful involves being in the moment as much as you can, and notice what 'pulls you out', or tries to. Whatever it appears to be that is pulling you, it is the ego, that insists - for it's own self survival (your own imagined-self survival) - that you stay as you think you are, rather than move to a higher consciousness.

You have a form of control in/as the higher consciousness in that you are in effect 'controlling' thought/emotion by 'holding on' to the higher consciousness.

With best wishes,

I can definitely recognize the pulls, but they are getting more and more subtile tho. Since yesterday i'm going outside to trigger that thing, inhaling every human being as much as i can. Sometimes it triggers thoughts, but sometimes i can feel it coming and it just collapses as soon as i notice it. Good explanation, thanks.

[Alexo45]

6 hours ago, dorg said:

@Alexo45 you will not be leaving behind anything that you will regret. 

You now can choose either to be mindful (aware) or remain in the world of the ego mind/thought. This is actually the only conscious choice that can be made, any other choice would only be made by ego and that would result in you staying in the ego mind of judgement and fear/anxiety.

Being aware/mindful involves being in the moment as much as you can, and notice what 'pulls you out', or tries to. Whatever it appears to be that is pulling you, it is the ego, that insists - for it's own self survival (your own imagined-self survival) - that you stay as you think you are, rather than move to a higher consciousness.

You have a form of control in/as the higher consciousness in that you are in effect 'controlling' thought/emotion by 'holding on' to the higher consciousness.

With best wishes,

Also, are all thoughts ego? Is there a distinction between ego mind thoughts and conscious impulses?

[Space]

13 hours ago, eskwire said:

Good luck! And you were being pretty disrespectful to someone who has changed your life so much. Why are you so angry? Why does one perceived contradiction about should statements make you fly off the handle? You're not in Leo prison. Nobody is forcing anything on you and you obviously keep coming back here. Shit, it's free content you can stream anytime!

Well said!

[dorg]

14 hours ago, Alexo45 said:

I can definitely recognize the pulls, but they are getting more and more subtile tho. Since yesterday i'm going outside to trigger that thing, inhaling every human being as much as i can. Sometimes it triggers thoughts, but sometimes i can feel it coming and it just collapses as soon as i notice it. Good explanation, thanks.

You are getting more subtle too . Initially you have to be very vigilant in order to spot the pulls; then, as you move into higher consciousness more often, you 'see' the ego thought system more often and so find it easier to not get pulled back in. IOW, in due course, you get more attuned to the splitting of your perception into me and other as it happens.

Eventually you do not get pulled back at all; it becomes a conscious choice to go back in - IOW, In order to go back in you just think you are and there you are - it is understood that the whole thing is only happening in thought/imagination. (But nevertheless very 'real' when in it).

Not sure what your 2nd sentence means.

13 hours ago, Alexo45 said:

Also, are all thoughts ego? Is there a distinction between ego mind thoughts and conscious impulses?

Going more deeply into the now is moving more deeply into higher consciousness. As you move deeper you become aware that all you can see or perceive is thought/image.

Not sure what you mean by "conscious impulses." I take it to mean an impulse to become (more) conscious. Such an impulse is higher consciousness 'showing itself' to ego. The ego ignores this for as long as it can, then starts the path to making itself more conscious; however the ego does not and cannot become more conscious. You are not the ego, you only think you are. The ego thought system is a split mind.
 

Edited October 23, 2017 by dorg

[smd]

On 10/21/2017 at 1:32 AM, Alexo45 said:

The whole self-development thing is kind of making no sense to me anymore. By making that statement, i'm talking about myself personally, and i don't want to shoot anyone in the foot by saying that self-development in general is bullshit. Not at all is it bullshit, immo it's even necessary, and i feel like it's a period every human being will go through in his life sooner or later.

Anyways, 

These last weeks i've been digging myself into non-duality like a headless chicken, and looking back to my self-development journey i've made so far, it's all good and it changed me as a total in a positive way, but it's kind of weird to go any further with it right now. Thinking about stopping to self-develop myself feels wrong, but with the knowledge i've gained over the past week, continuing it and shaping myself into and ego driven form just doesn't feel right anymore. I know life goes as it go's, and that the universe choose me to do this work to get me to this point at this time, but right now it doesn't make any sense anymore. I've came to a point where i feel like i just have to "let go" and enjoy the ride, wherever it takes me, without trying to manipulate my way into something/someone the universe doesn't want me to become.

I'm not sure if this post makes sense, but i had to get this out of my system. 
Let me know your thoughts.

 

 

I've spent the past couple years looking at non-duality, Zen, & enlightenment, etc.  I'm tired of it & haven't found it to be useful.  When 5Meo arrived on the scene last year, I wondered about it, but after a year of study, it all seems like organic video games.  It doesn't lead to anything.  People did it & came back to describe it in words.  They're still themselves other than the changing words.  What is the actionable part?   I find it terribly disturbing that a self-help recommendation is to do these drugs that will scare the living shit right out of you & being told that _that_ is what I need.  And also to be told that I'm missing out on some 90% chunk of self-development if I don't do it.  It's discouraging to say the least.  Plus all the riddles & bs surrounding it, makes me feel like I'm just chasing my own ass to figure it out.  It appears they want you to drive yourself insane in order to come out the other side, which doesn't give any guarantee that this is actually a healthy thing to do.  And _not_ everybody can do that.

And so, I'm tired of the scene.  I still meditate & dabble in Zen a little bit, but it's not actionable.  It has to be something I can do fairly easily, with the tools I have at my disposal.  Not the stuff LE is tracking or hunting down dosages of spiked-crap from drug dealers & so on.  If they had LSD psychiatry as they had in the late 50s that Carey Grant was doing, I'd be interested in signing up for that.

At any rate, I wouldn't feel bad about not having to look at.  What are you really missing out on anyway?  I've grown more skeptical of it as the years have piled on.  It's great if you're into alienation or having to find a cult or group of like-minded individuals to communicate with....who else would there be but believers & non-believers?   Non-believers would call you a crack-pot & you can't talk about it.  But I digress...my fall from grace on this topic... haha.

[Leo Gura]

@smd You have no idea what you're missing. You're speaking about nonduality or 5-MeO as if it's a fad diet or a new TV show.

It's not easy, but nothing life-transforming will be easy.

"Looking into Zen" isn't Zen. Sit down and start doing some serious self-inquiry and go do some serious meditation retreats.

If you ever try 5-MeO you will realize it is the single most important human discovery in history.

[Revolutionary Think]

@Leo Gura Did you ever manage to convince your mom to do some psychedelics?