Zen Devilry

[Martin123]

@Nahm Thank you that is very kind

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, How to be wise said:

@Leo Gura @Toby @Brimstone @Markus @Maxx Then why don't people feel selfish when they are tripping on dmt. If dmt is showing you enlightenment, and you say that enlightenment doesn't remove your selfish patterns, then is it possible to trip and still feel 'selfish' emotions. 

Selfishness is not separate from enlightenment. The relative is the absolute, and the absolute is the relative. There is no difference between enlightenment and non-enlightenment.

Of course you can still feel selfish emotions after enlightenment. Enlightenment doesn't remove any capabilities from you.

[Leo Gura]

Also, I notice some of you guys are holding enlightenment as different from self-realization as different from awakening. This is creating needless confusion. These are all identical terms. Just different terms pointing to the same thing. There are a hundred different lables you can use to speak about this stuff. That doesn't mean each is a different thing.

[Nahm]

@Leo Gura Thanks. ❤️

[Markus]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Also, I notice some of you guys are holding enlightenment as different from self-realization as different from awakening. This is creating needless confusion. These are all identical terms. Just different terms pointing to the same thing. There are a hundred different lables you can use to speak about this stuff. That doesn't mean each is a different thing.

A lot of the terminology is used interchangeably though I think an awakening or enlightenment experience is a temporary oneness with the Self which can have effects lingering for days, months, or years,  whereas self-realization or enlightenment is abiding - permanent and irreversible. The former is much more common than the latter.

[Leo Gura]

@Markus Nowhere is that codified.

How abiding it is, varies greatly.

All these terms generally mean the same thing, with different teachers prefering different terms and defining them differently.

[xist]

is endless talk about exactly what "enlightenment" is, necessary? Leo often you say "i will talk about that in future videos" with regard to other smaller insights to be gained. While "enlightenment" is the end goal, it is a lofty one. I'm at the start and more interested in illumination or direction towards other "smaller" insights to be had along the path, do you have anything in the works?

i read "the way of the superior man" yesterday. amazing book which i think aligns with enlightenment work.

[Leo Gura]

@xist Which is why I rarely talk purely about enlightenment. Most of my talks are about more minor things.

There is really nothing to say about enlightenment. You just do your self-inquiry (or whatever method) and you either experience it or not. Talking about it is pointless and counter-productive in most cases.