Factual Text About Lsd From A Swedish Webite

[Elephant]

@Outer there is no schizofrenia or personality disorders in my family tree, there has just been derpression from what I know, and i was severly depressed 5 years ago. 

Right now I just work as a barista, im 21 years old I almost never have anxiety, altho worries. 

I kind of plan to move to Australia quite soon so that might be a problem, but I don’t think so

Edited October 19, 2017 by Elephant

[Forestluv]

27 minutes ago, Outer said:

Unless you are susceptible to mental illness, like there is schizophrenia, depression, bipolar disorder, psychosis (except drug induced), suicide, in the family then you will be fine. LSD does not mimic schizophrenia, but amphetamines do, especially in higher dosages.

The easiest warning sign is a decrease in cognition, like IQ, if you are sharp and have been for quite some time, then you will be fine.

But do not take LSD or other psychedelics if you are expecting within 2 years that a major life altering event will occur, like starting to study, a new job, workplace, death of a parent, new relationship or break-up, etc.

If that's all checked up, then you can proceed to take LSD or other psychedelics, but start with a very low dosage, this is a life project, no need to hurry. In case you've only smoked weed, marijuana, you will be higher than you've ever been before, even with such a low dosage, and it lasts many, many hours in the case of LSD.

If you take LSD or any other psychedelic, make sure to buy a testing kit. A mental shortcut to remember, for LSD, is to see what the taste is, if it's bitter or anything like that, metallic, spit it out. (If it's bitter it's a spitter). It should only taste paper, some have reported the ink tasting, but I don't know about that.

If you don't fit the criteria, there's plenty of practices you can do in a secular context, like meditation, see Sam Harris and his book Waking Up for that.

Never ever mix substances, like psychedelics with weed.

What’s with all the rules? One needs to have been “sharp” for “quite some time”? Don’t take a psychedelic within two years of a major life event? Only start off with a low dose? 

Where did those beliefs come from? Have you questioned if they are actually true?

Edited October 19, 2017 by Serotoninluv

[Elephant]

@Berjohansen   

Yeah I want shrooms more than LSD, I just have’nt asked him, and he hasnt mentioned it.

what do you mean? Fleinsopp? Are you picking it in the woods?

[Elephant]

5 minutes ago, Outer said:

2 years within a major life event was the criteria for a psychedelic scientific study. I think it makes sense.

2 years is quite long, who do you think that person would be? Someone who is 40,  have two children and reached his career?

Edited October 19, 2017 by Elephant

[Forestluv]

14 minutes ago, Outer said:

Ok, it's good to know if there is any bipolar disorder. It's where one has phases of radical opposite of depression and alternate of it, manic, sleeping very little to none, an absurd amount of energy. Since psychedelics might trigger the 'manic' phase in those with bipolar disorder.

 

Yes that might be a problem.

Taking psychedelics in a newly arrived foreign country with conservative drug laws might be worthy of taken in consideration of. So wait, settle down, go for a visit in the local police station if you wish, ask for a tour if that's possible Whatever embraces you in the conservative culture of Australia.

Consider taking Psilocybin mushrooms instead of lysergic acid diethylamid, LSD. I'm not sure which substance is better, but there has been a lot of clinical trials on psilocybin recently, as LSD is such a taboo.

Enough

In Australia, the drug laws and culture are not particularly “conservative”. Australia relaxed their drug laws in 2003. Compare them to Japan. . . 

I’ve traveled and lived in 19 foreign countries around the world. I would put Australia in the lower half in terms of conservative culture. 

There has been numerous clinical studies with lsd recently, 

Stop spreading misinformation 

Edited October 19, 2017 by Serotoninluv

[Forestluv]

13 minutes ago, Outer said:

They are all true. Unsharpness is warning sign for shizophrenia, and I think but not sure, psychosis, so cognitive decline and psychedelics might not be a good combo.

Starting off with a low dosage is common wisdom, to see how one reacts to the substance, even in the wild while testing new plants, you'd first scrub some of the plant on your arm to check for inflammation, then if it's good, doing the same for lips, mouth, then chewing a bit and spitting out, until first trying a small bit to see how the stomach handles it, etc, etc.

2 years within a major life event was the criteria for a psychedelic scientific study. I think it makes sense.

Thus sounds like someone parroting things they read. Have you critically thought about these beliefs and challenge them? Or did you just accept what you were told? And what is YOUR direct experience?

This doesn’t sound like it’s coming from someone with a lot of psychedelic experience. 

Edited October 19, 2017 by Serotoninluv

[Elephant]

Australia is an awesome country in general, psychedelics isnt everything you know @Outer 

And even in Sweden it’s really hard to get, I just posted a random post that i wanted psychedelics with my snapchat in a random open forum and then he added me lucky as fuck, I have no contact with that type of folks what so ever.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Elephant

[Berjohansen]

@Outer Bipolar people are as various as there are fish in the sea, it all depends on the person, their medication, history and if they are in a stable period. They should not be taking psycedelics if on any medication wich has counterindications towards psycedelics, ie antidepresants but that goes for everyone! Im bipolar 2 with a couple of episodes boardering on bp 1. Im medicated on lamictal alone, a moodstabilizer wich works wonders for me. This has no effect what so ever on pscycedelics and scince im stable and happy like every other person its as dangerous to me as to everyone else. Knowledge, setting and mindset are way way more critical. This goes for ME! Everyone else should make up their own mind if you are ready, including all you "normal" folks On shrooms i realized that im not bipolar, i am ME! But i have a condition i must treat with care and respect.. Never felt so relieved and blessed my whole life...

if your rapidcycling with full blown manias, on 6 different meds is another story.. People with BP could be way more stable and ready for psychedelics than a person i.e straight out of a bad marriage..

 

[Forestluv]

1 minute ago, Outer said:

They have a liberal-conserative government at the moment, and psilocybin mushrooms are illegal.

Regarding clinical studies and LSD, this is called a straw man argument, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

I simply said LSD is taboo and there's been a lot of clinical trials on Psilocybin.

I'm sorry, but anecdotal experience is in no way related to what I said, it doesn't even make sense. What do you even mean?

Australia has more relaxed drug laws than the US. They are not considered a harsh ant-drug country.

Clinical studies are NOT favoring psilicybin because LSD is taboo.

This sounds like someone parroting what they have been told. Have you critically thought about this? Do you even have any experience with psychedelics? Psychedelics blast through this type of parroting and dogma

[Berjohansen]

@Elephant yup.. Or somone picked and i bought  think you call them Toppslätskivling,

and they are from mother nature <3

Edited October 19, 2017 by Berjohansen

[Elephant]

8 minutes ago, Outer said:

Street dealers is a thing of the past. Can be dangerous.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkNetMarketsNoobs/

But it’s a guy in my area that will get the dellics for me, I will probably meet him if I buy them.

[Elephant]

9 minutes ago, Berjohansen said:

@Elephant yup.. Or somone picked and i bought  think you call them Toppslätskivling,

and they are from mother nature <3

I will probably not go put and pick them myself, seems so complicated and ill probably fuck it up somehow, har ingen koll på hur det funkar och pallar inte lära mig allt och typ läsa om vart man kan plocka svamp haha

Edited October 19, 2017 by Elephant

[Forestluv]

@Outer I am a professor and researcher of genetics and neuroscience. Researchers are not studying psilicybin because the word “LSD” is taboo. They are seeking to identify the most effective drugs and methods. Both are schedule I drugs and have similiar hurdles for clinical studies.

Are you giving advice to someone on how to use psychedelics without ever trying them yourself? 

Edited October 19, 2017 by Serotoninluv

[Forestluv]

Just answer one question. Are you giving advice on how to use psychedelics without trying it yourself?

Edited October 19, 2017 by Serotoninluv

[Forestluv]

The reason I ask is that you use a lot of black and white reasoning. 

Human personality is highly complex and the effects of psychedelics are multifactorial with significant individual variation. I’ve done over 80 trips. I’ve done Ayahuasca ceremonies with over 100  people that had never used a psychedelic before and spent dozens of hours discussing our varied experiences. They were some of the most humbling experiences in which dearly-held beliefs were stripped away as I struggled through ego death. I can’t imagine giving the type of advice you give to a novice.

It seems like we have different experience and perspective. I wish you the best, yet have no desire to continue the conversation.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Serotoninluv

[Elephant]

3 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

I’ve done over 80 trips. I’ve done Ayahuasca ceremonies with over 100  people that had never used a psychedelic before and spent dozens of hours discussing our varied experiences.

Since you have done so much of it, how has it affected you life? Have you tried dmt or something stronger?

[Forestluv]

There is less of “my life” and more of just life now.

Ayahuasca is related to dmt and on the same intensity level. The 2nd Ayahuasca ceremony was heavy intense. I can’t imagine going harder. That’s why I’m working on developing higher awareness before returning to that place.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Serotoninluv

[Forestluv]

@Outer

A strong trip or two would take you beyond this conceptualization.

Regarding your coceptualization: t’s over-simplified. Your strongly held-beliefs are limiting you. You have so much more potential. 

And your link for #2 goes to a grant application. That is inclusion criteria for the proposed study, NOT a conclusion / recommendation from the results of a clinical study.

And your #3 is based off the opinion of the admins of the erowid forum. Well, the shamans I met in Peru all recommended to start off with med-high doses. Both groups have extensive experience with psychedelics.  How could we determine which advice is best? Or, could they both be good advice depending on the circumstances?

Edited October 20, 2017 by Serotoninluv

[HII]

Okay, I'll try to put something together here. I hope you don't feel attacked by anything I say, I'm just trying to help since you ask for advice here.

I've had something between 30-40 trips (the majority of them low-dose) with various psychedelics. LSD was the one I've had the most and my highest dosages and strongest trips were also with LSD. I've spent a lot of time reading hundreds of trip reports in various forums and trying to educate myself about the pharmacology of LSD and other substances and neurochemistry in general. 

And after all that, I still feel like a noob. Or maybe somewhere in between noob/medium level at best. What I mean by that is that it seems to me that there's so much more personal experience to be had, there are so many more insights to be had about how this substance works, there is so much more general knowledge and theory to be acquired. 

I'm always very hesitant with telling people who haven't used psychedelics before anything about them, because I never know if the experience they would be getting without my words wouldn't be just the right experience for them. Often people like to put out blanket statements like "ALWAYS have a trip sitter" or "take a low dose at first", but maybe the presence of another person will give you trouble which otherwise you wouldn't have and maybe things you would struggle with psychologically at a low dose would be less of an issue with a high dose, because they get thrown in your face so hard that you can't fight against it and face them and then resolve them or your general experience is so altered that they don't even make sense anymore. If a person follows strict advice, you just never know if they wouldn't have had a better and clearer and less conceptually-filtered experience without knowing anything about what they might expect in the first place. 

My take on resolving this would be this: You can try to be as safe as possible or you can try to get the most personal, direct and unfiltered experience (meant as a spectrum with all the possibilities in between). That is a decision that you have to take. If you want to be safe, then listen to people with a lot of knowledge and experience and gather general information from various sources. Note that your experience will be altered by that and you're just following what statistically has worked best for people in general, not what would've been the best thing for you. 

If you want to be on the safe side, you really should educate yourself more. I'm not saying you need to read 20 books with 300 pages each before going on your first trip. But I would try to get at least 50-100 trip reports from different people with different backgrounds and at least read into a few scientific articles and watch some educational material on what LSD does in your brain and body. And you should really look for sources which give you more than just a collection of blatant statements without explaining how their claims were acquired. 

You can apply this to any future research you will ever do on anything: Always ask: How exactly did the source who is making a claim acquire that information? To me this seems obvious as fuck, but apparently many people like to decide about the trustworthiness of a source by whatever standards they have and then either believe or disbelieve whatever the source says. This is exaggerated, but it's basically how you went with your first post. That's why I said educate yourself more. 

Let's look again at what they say on this website:

On 17.10.2017 at 2:45 AM, Elephant said:

It’s not uncommon that you get anxiety, panic or paranoia. Many also get several different problem, like psychoses and depression and even personality disorders.

Do you notice how vague these statements are? How common exactly is "not uncommon"? How many are "many"? Is there anything more specific said in the text? Is anything said about how this information was acquired? Do they cite any sources?

Now let's look at the impression these statements gave you:

On 17.10.2017 at 0:27 PM, Elephant said:

yes everything to much is bad, but one trip could fuck you up if youre unlucky. 

To all my theoretical knowledge and personal experience and what I've heard from people, this is precisely NOT how it works. You're not simply "unlucky" and then a bad trip fucks up your life. 

It's very hard to make any general statement about what LSD does to you, because the experiences vary so much between individuals. However, what can be said fairly safely I guess, is that it hugely intensifies whatever experience you might have (sensory, emotionally, thoughts, etc) and that it has a tendency to bring up unconscious stuff. So what might happen is the following: Let's say you're struggling with psychological conflicts in your life, consciously or unconsciously, which makes you a little bit fucked up on the inside, but you've managed to work yourself around that so far and live a fairly functional life. Then you take a high dose (!) of LSD and your conflicts are thrown right in your face with an intensity of whatever you've experienced before multiplied by 100. Some people get to do some productive inner work on their conflicts in such a situation. But others, who've been too fucked up before and/or are in the wrong setting and/or the dosage was just too high and they can't find their way back and their brains just keep reiterating the same dysfunctional patterns that have been there before and now brought up to the surface with highly increased overall presence and intensity. 

If that's what you're scared of, then I would prescribe two methods with which you can lower that risk to a point where I would be confident to say that you've eliminated it completely:

1) Take a low dose. I wanna see a case before I believe that you can possibly seriously damage your life with a single use of 50 micrograms of LSD. It doesn't happen.

2) Know yourself. Note that an LSD trip is not just a chemical bringing you weird experiences; it's a reaction of you to that chemical. Anything LSD will bring up in you is there anyways. It just gets intensified. Look at your past and your current inside and try to see if there's anything that would make you prone to some mental illnesses in general, which could then be brought up and intensified by a psychedelic. If you don't find anything, then you'd have to take a very high dose and be in a very bad setting to have any real risk. I haven't heard of a single case where someone who was on no medication, had had no severe episodes of mental illness and then suddenly went insane from a low-dose LSD trip in a calm setting. 
If you're still sort of unsure with this, you could tell the people here on this forum more about yourself. Your past and what your current everyday life looks like, what you're doing, what your inner landscape (thoughts & feelings) look like. They can probably tell if you're risk prone or not. To me so far, you don't seem to be. You mentioned an episode of depression, but I wouldn't be too concerned about that. I'd be more concerened if it was schizophrenia or psychosis for example. It depends on what was the cause for your depression though, not sure if you wanna talk about that here. You can lower your risk even more by reflecting on your depression beforehand and note if any of the thoughts and emotional patterns from that time start to come up when you're under the influence of LSD. If you've worked through it back then, then it'll probably seem ridiculous and you will laugh about it and accept your past self for everything that happened. If you didn't fully work through it, then maybe you find new solutions now. And if you don't, you know there's still some work to be done. That in and of itself doesn't damage your life though, it just shows you that there's something you gotta deal with either now or in the future. 

In the end you'll do what you'll do, but here are just two very safe possibilities:

1) Up to 50 micrograms on a walk in the woods or somewhere out in nature where there aren't too many people.

2) Up to 100 micrograms in a home with a good friend.

Just go with whatever you feel comfortable with.

If you go with a low dose first, you'll probably be like "oooh okay, so that's what this substance is doing to me. How unnecessary that I was put off by all these alleged general risks". And if you try a high dose later and face some paranoia and fears you'll be like "oh okay, so now I understand how this can be dangerous". 

If you don't feel quite ready now, keep in mind that you always have the option to just leave it and consider it again in a few years. 

If there's one thing I'd like you to take away from everything I've written, it would be that you can eliminate the risk that you're scared of (severe psychological damage that has bad consequences for you life) by simply taking a low dosage.

[Elephant]

@HII Hi,  thanks for your devoted answer 

The reason I got depressed was because of subtle abusive relatioships in my childhood, supressed emotions for years, lied for myself alot. 

I might also say that ive had depersonalization disorder. 

It does’nt happen that much in my life now, I just go to work, get home, go for a run, taking a comd shower, doing some yoga were I stretch out my pelvic floor, stomach, breast, and throat. And listen to binaural beats. 

I have meditated alot before, but i just seems like that fucked me up, being that guy who always must meditate too keep his mind calm, even if that wasnt the case  

So right now I dont meditate, not because the challenge of meditation, but rather the person i became by always thinking about meditation and so on. 

I always get curious when I hear about bad trips, because it’s almost what I want, I wanna come in to contact with shit ive never thought about or supressed. If that involves pain, and it’s healthy, it’s not a bad trip for me. 

Edited October 20, 2017 by Elephant