What Do You Think About The Belief That You Were Never Born?

[Joseph Maynor]

This is a bit weird, but it does seem to have some interesting legs when you inquire into it.  If we look at your awareness, you don't know that you were born directly.  That comes from testimony of others.  You do not directly recollect being born.  This means that your birth -- to you -- can be nothing but thought, and all thought is false existentially speaking.  Therefore, it is a false that you were born.  Thoughts?

Edited October 13, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Shanmugam]

That is because your birth is an idea which has been developed based on the premise that there is a 'you' separate from existence. When the illusion of the separate 'you' is broken, the reality remains, which is unborn.

[Thomas Razzeto]

What you truly are, this formless Source-Awareness, was never born and will never die. It exists without being a thing or an object and it exists before time and outside of space. All of creation is born “into” this Source-Awareness. This is why some ancient texts say that you are not in the world, but instead, the world is in you.

In that creation, we find the person commonly known as “you.” This person is the combination of your body (which was obviously born into the physical world), and your soul, which existed before your body was born. Neither the body or soul are sentient in any way so where does this power of sentience come from? Well, your “personal sentience” is actually the One Source-Awareness looking through the window or viewpoint of your personal consciousness (soul).

Since I have talked about this in other posts, I will keep this brief.

Thanks for reading, Thomas Razzeto

PS Here is one of my latest essays:
In Nondual Wisdom, What Is Real and What Is Unreal?
https://infinitelymystical.com/essays/real-and-unreal.html

Edited October 13, 2017 by Thomas Razzeto

[Nahm]

@Joseph Maynor i have not experienced birth, or a soul.  there's logic in both, but that's relative. 

Edited October 13, 2017 by Nahm

[Brimstone]

Have you ever been to a birth. It is one of the best things you can experience unless of course something goes tragically wrong.

In all honesty the magic of that moment where the newborn enters into life is full of so much magic, wonder and awe!

I mean seriously, creation is..... beyond beauty 

Namaste

[Nahm]

@Brimstone ya. 3 times.  wife pooped pushing the last one out.  i looked at my mother in law and said 'oh great, now i have to go too'.  nobody thought it was funny.   

[Brimstone]

Hilarious as always @Nahm ?

[Nahm]

@Brimstone Thanks for that!   I think it’s weird, I told my best friend about it, and he didn’t think it was funny at all. No one does.   I think maybe the mind gets too caught up in the poop part. That’s life I guess. 

[Forestluv]

This gets into the rarity of 100% certainty. Am I 100% certain that I was born? No. Would I give 100:1 odds and bet my life savings that I was born? Yes.

[Heart of Space]

All human bodies are born at some point in some form.  That's how this particular universe works assuming you're in the same one I am, although it seems a lot of people on this forum are in other universes than I am.  

Though I guess from the perspective of formless awareness you never begin or end, so if that's what you're referring to you aren't born.  

[Brimstone]

I love the synchronicity of it@Nahm lol

And I am a dad so I am pretty sure I read somewhere that bad humour is part of the job description. 

Lol @Serotoninluv

Your first 5 words are right @Heart of Space the rest is just noise until you get to the second paragraph where you guessed right. That is where the neither or both comes into play depending on the path you are on. 

[Heart of Space]

23 minutes ago, Brimstone said:

Your first 5 words are right @Heart of Space the rest is just noise until you get to the second paragraph where you guessed right. That is where the neither or both comes into play depending on the path you are on. 

Every word in my post is just 'noise.'  Every word ever written is 'noise.'  

[Brimstone]

Haha, so very very true @Heart of Space , although it doesn't change the fact that "all human bodies are born", to deny that is to deny That.

[Nahm]

Part of seeing through the illusion is distinction between experience and thought. That’s the level of game it’s runnin. 

[Heart of Space]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

Part of seeing through the illusion is distinction between experience and thought. That’s the level of game it’s runnin. 

I experience a tingling sensation in my nuts and have sexual thoughts while reading your posts, Nom Noms.  I'm getting good at this already.  Do I pass your test, senpai?  

[Naviy]

11 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Therefore, it is a false that you were born.  Thoughts?

How about that belief of "false" is false too?

1) "It is true that you were born"

2) "It is false that you were born"

What are these? Some pieces of thinking. You can get inside of these pieces of thinking and develop them further with more additional thoughts. But it will be just thoughts about thoughts about thoughts about thoughts about thoughts: "I have a thought that it is false that I was born because I have a thought that I don't experience my birth directly because I have a thought that I know about my birth from others, because I have a thought that others told me about my birth, because I have a thought that there are others, because I have a thought that there is direct experience, because I have a thought that there is experience, because I have a thought that..."

How to get to the actual truth then? What is actual? That's the big question.

"Is it false that I was born? What does it mean - born? What is false? A thought? What is a thought? It's an object. What is an object? It's an experience. What is an experience? Something that is actual. What is actual? ... ... ... ..." and then, if you want to advance further, you will have to get out of thinking mind into something that we usually call direct experience. There you can look for answers. But these answers, I believe, almost impossible to communicate in words. The best way you can communicate those answers is ask another person to inquire by themselves.

So, the best answer to the topic question is: "Look by yourself and see". In the process of looking you will be forced to find what is actual (like Leo says). And this "actual" does not come in form of answer to your question "yes" or "no". This "actual" is the only actual thing out there. Poetically you can say that this "actual" is the answer to all questions.

[Joseph Maynor]

I think this is a fascinating conceptual and epistemological issue.  Reality seems to begin and end with awareness.  But we are all told stories of our birth by people who claim to have birthed us.  So, we have an issue about the epistemological status of testimony.  We also deal with the epistemological status of the past too.  Does the past have any relevance to present awareness?  You might want to inquire there.  This also gets at issues of What am I?  If I'm awareness, then to ask for a moment of birth is ludicrous.  Just as ludicrous as a fat man enjoying canned salmon!  Ok, that was a poor attempt at humor, but I needed to break that up there to keep the communication flowing right.

Anyhoo -- here's the bottom line.  You were never born and you will never die.  These are concepts, and they are coming from you.  They are a story that is being birthed out of you!  So, what you wanna do is self-inquiry work into the distinction of reality and non-reality.  That's a rabbit hole worth pursuing if you're at the advanced stages of personal development.  Regarding psychedelics -- they tell you how clean you are.  The more authentic you are the more psychedelics become innocuous.  They may still be weird and distressing, but you're not gonna freak out about it.  Only egos freak out on psychedelics.  Psychedelics let you know how much ego you have.  Thanks Leo for doing the videos on psychedelics.  That's putting your finger on the best litmus test of ego, which is needed to clean up the problem.  We gotta know that we have a problem before we can work to clean anything up.  That's what psychedelics can teach a person.

Video on point to watch:  I loved this one Leo!  Good job.

 

Edited October 15, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Nahm]

@Joseph Maynor ?

[Brimstone]

You are totally right about the fact that you were never born and you will never die, who you truly are, yet That as you appears to be born and then dies. Even the concept that I was never born and I will never die dissolves when you hold it up to That, just as the idea that you are born and you die dissolves when you hold it up to that.

As I said in the other thread @Joseph Maynor , you are looking for the Constant, it is there when you are awake, it is there when you dream, it is there when you take psychedelics, it is there when you are in a deep sleep, it is never not there. Until that reveals itself to you, you will not see through the fog.

Instead of saying  I was born, or I was not born, ask yourself, what is the Constant, what can not be born? 

Edited October 15, 2017 by Brimstone

[Nahm]

It is an illusion