A Question About The Concept Of Self-actualization

[Ariel]

Hey guys. I only recently found out what self-actualization really means (From the internet and from one of Leo's videos). And I have an important question.

What does self-actualizing really mean? I, personally, have always wanted to become the best version of myself. Now I heard about self-actualization and to be honest it wasn't really inspiring. 

Why you may ask? Because I don't feel good about it. I want to be the best version of myself, it may sound like self-actualization but it's really not that. Self-actualization from what I understood is raising to my full potential. But what if I don't want to raise to my full potential? What if I want to get to my full potential in the aspects of my own? Do whatever I want? It looks like someone already chose what are the qualities of the "self-actualized" person. I just don't feel that everyone is the same. I don't know, really. I just don't feel good about it. 

[Damir Elezi]

I think you misunderstand the term 'full potential'. Realizing that means turning the greatest thing you could possibly be/do into reality. So if you want to be the best version of yourself, it is exactly that. Your full potential = the best version of yourself that could possibly exist.

The term was coined by Maslow and it was not some kind of quality he defined, which you now have to live up to. Self actualization is a NEED, that arises if you got the "lower" needs on the pyramid handled. So for Maslow, if somebody has enough food, sleep, shelter, sex (or at least some sexual relief), social life, money, some luxury etc. The need to become Self actualized comes natural. 

Also, of course we can never be everything we could have potentially been. In 20 years I could be a lawyer,  a musician, a philosopher, a construction worker or a bum on the street. All that is potential, but you yourself hold some of those things higher or lower depending on what Your values and tendencies are. So In the end of course you choose what Your greatest potential is for you. 

[Ariel]

3 minutes ago, Damir Elezi said:

I think you misunderstand the term 'full potential'. Realizing that means turning the greatest thing you could possibly be/do into reality. So if you want to be the best version of yourself, it is exactly that. Your full potential = the best version of yourself that could possibly exist.

The term was coined by Maslow and it was not some kind of quality he defined, which you now have to live up to. Self actualization is a NEED, that arises if you got the "lower" needs on the pyramid handled. So for Maslow, if somebody has enough food, sleep, shelter, sex (or at least some sexual relief), social life, money, some luxury etc. The need to become Self actualized comes natural. 

Also, of course we can never be everything we could have potentially been. In 20 years I could be a lawyer,  a musician, a philosopher, a construction worker or a bum on the street. All that is potential, but you yourself hold some of those things higher or lower depending on what Your values and tendencies are. So In the end of course you choose what Your greatest potential is for you. 

So, shortly, you say that if I want to become a confident person, then it's like self-actualization for me? I'm still a bit confused.

I looked online and found this: 12 Characteristics of a Self-Actualized Person 

"Self-acutalized people embrace the unknown", what if I don't want to embrace the unknown?

[Damir Elezi]

Yes exactly well, I think, as with everything else, people like to turn self-actualization into some kind of cult or dogma. Who is there to tell you how it should be? Is there some kind of god of self-actualization in the clouds, giving you the 12 commandments?

Self-actualization is simply a trend towards reaching your full potential. A TREND meaning you can never reach that and there is no 'self-actualized' person, only 'self-actualizing' persons. The journey is the key, the destinations and goals you reach during the journey are not as important as the journey itself. 

Now of course you have to ask yourself what is necessary in order to become what you want to become. And I'd say embracing the unknown and questioning the stuff you think you know is key to real growth. But if you don't wanna do that right Now well... Who is there to force you? Start small

[Ariel]

Just now, Damir Elezi said:

Yes exactly well, I think, as with everything else, people like to turn self-actualization into some kind of cult or dogma. Who is there to tell you how it should be? Is there some kind of god of self-actualization in the clouds, giving you the 12 commandments?

Self-actualization is simply a trend towards reaching your full potential. A TREND meaning you can never reach that and there is no 'self-actualized' person, only 'self-actualizing' persons. The journey is the key, the destinations and goals you reach during the journey are not as important as the journey itself. 

Now of course you have to ask yourself what is necessary in order to become what you want to become. And I'd say embracing the unknown and questioning the stuff you think you know is key to real growth. But if you don't wanna do that right Now well... Who is there to force you? Start small

 

So, self-actualization is becoming whatever I want to become fully?

[Damir Elezi]

@Ariel yes, you could say it like that I think. At least I see it this way.

[Ariel]

5 minutes ago, Damir Elezi said:

@Ariel yes, you could say it like that I think. At least I see it this way.

Leo made a video "A Rant Against The Pickup Community". In the description he wrote that it limits is from self-actualizing or something like that. How exactly? If that what a person wants to do, isn't that self-actualizing?

Of damn.. I am trying to understand this site and channel for a very long time. It's difficult. My brain can't just proccess all the videos and information without doubting and asking questions. Maybe I'll stop with all of this. Too difficult for me. I waste a lot of time.

I like a straight-forward approach to life.

[Damir Elezi]

@Ariel Leo did pick up himself at some point of his life.

Leo, and most people on this forum (I think) are interested in getting the most 'juice' out of their life. As You are on this journey,  You mature and You recognize that a carreer, money, women etc. Are not the pinnacle of life and in fact block You from really deep experiences, which, for many people on here, are experiences of no-self and spiritual enlightenment. I notice that You are probably more interested in material things right now, and that's good. Get your life handled first, do the stuff You want. 

Realize that You can not stop this because this is not some movement or anything You don't need to call it self-actualization, but if You work on yourself, for example trying to become more confident, You are basically doing the work. Not every advice is meant for everyone, You know. Pick up might me the right thing for You to do. Take in the information and apply them to your own life.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Damir Elezi

[Joseph Maynor]

Here's a question for you -- In which ways do you think you can still grow and mature in life?   Can you foresee how you might think, feel, and value differently than you do now?  Do this, give me some sentences.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Forestluv]

The terms "best" and "potential" are loaded terms to me. There is an ego-driven goal present. Not that there is anything "wrong" that. Yet for me, there is also an ego dissolution component that doesn't have a "best" or "potential". There is no "good" or "bad". 

What if my ego dissolved away. What would be left? It would just be.

Is a frog "better" than a tree?

[Erlend K]

Obviously nothing is objectively better than anything else. When we talk avout "better" it is understud that we mean subjectively better. As in higher quality of life, more direction/purpose and meaning, more mastery over the activities ypu value, higher happiness, more love, sense of interconnection, awe, wonder, feeling at home in the world, peace of mind, autonomy, sence of belonging and everything else 99% of us value. 

[starsofclay]

@Ariel From your first post I am getting that you are more interested in self-development than self-actualization. I'm not in the circle enough to know exactly what the difference is, but I do believe it's two different things, right? Right now I only practice self-development, because I was tired of being miserable. Perhaps one day I will be ready for the next step, and honestly this doesn't bother me that I'm not ready yet. 

[Saarah]

@Ariel It reflects how we must develop to be able to function more effectively as a self

You can do what you want, and that will either have disastrous consequences or ones conducive to living a good life, this kind of acts as a guide to help you recognise what needs you're being motivated by and what are the helpful rather than damaging ways to fulfill those needs 

In your pickup example, maybe someone uses pickup to manipulate and that reduces their feelings of self-honesty, integrity and authenticity, all of which reduce self-esteem, one of the needs. You can do what you want but it will have consequences. Maybe pickup gives someone the façade of self-esteem on the outside but they will end up unfulfilled in their needs. 

 

[Highest]

Self-actualization: ego death and the death of the mind. Now you know your path, who you are, what to use your life and time on. Then you simply are Actualized, you are not a sheep. This is a long process. Don't confuse it with self-development, that's not the same as being actualized.

[Ariel]

On 12.10.2017 at 0:02 AM, Joseph Maynor said:

Here's a question for you -- In which ways do you think you can still grow and mature in life?   Can you foresee how you might think, feel, and value differently than you do now?  Do this, give me some sentences.

Yeah,, 

If I understood the question I'll give you some..

1. Being more focused. I am thinking a lot and it pisses me off. Sometimes I think so much it just ruins things. Destroys the mood, wastes time. If I could feel more calm, collected, focused, present, I would feel great.

2. Being a lot more productive. Because of my thoughts and laziness I procrastinate a lot. If I could reduce it, it would be awesome.

3. Improve social skills. I've been a really shy guy a year~two ago. I improved my skills a lot. But there is still room for improvement. I would feel really well because it something that used to bother me back then.

On 12.10.2017 at 0:41 AM, Serotoninluv said:

The terms "best" and "potential" are loaded terms to me. There is an ego-driven goal present. Not that there is anything "wrong" that. Yet for me, there is also an ego dissolution component that doesn't have a "best" or "potential". There is no "good" or "bad". 

What if my ego dissolved away. What would be left? It would just be.

Is a frog "better" than a tree?

Oh come on man, can you say somdthing helpful? As you see I don't really understand all these terms good. (I know that ego is the "me", ego-death is stopping everything, thougths and things like that, I guess) 

21 hours ago, Erlend K said:

Obviously nothing is objectively better than anything else. When we talk avout "better" it is understud that we mean subjectively better. As in higher quality of life, more direction/purpose and meaning, more mastery over the activities ypu value, higher happiness, more love, sense of interconnection, awe, wonder, feeling at home in the world, peace of mind, autonomy, sence of belonging and everything else 99% of us value. 

Isn't self-actualization suposed to be the top goal for each person?

15 hours ago, starsofclay said:

@Ariel From your first post I am getting that you are more interested in self-development than self-actualization. I'm not in the circle enough to know exactly what the difference is, but I do believe it's two different things, right? Right now I only practice self-development, because I was tired of being miserable. Perhaps one day I will be ready for the next step, and honestly this doesn't bother me that I'm not ready yet. 

I have no idea what's the big difference. In self-developpment you develop yourself. In self-actualization you develop yourself to the point where you don't really have to? (something like that)

15 hours ago, Saarah said:

@Ariel It reflects how we must develop to be able to function more effectively as a self

You can do what you want, and that will either have disastrous consequences or ones conducive to living a good life, this kind of acts as a guide to help you recognise what needs you're being motivated by and what are the helpful rather than damaging ways to fulfill those needs 

In your pickup example, maybe someone uses pickup to manipulate and that reduces their feelings of self-honesty, integrity and authenticity, all of which reduce self-esteem, one of the needs. You can do what you want but it will have consequences. Maybe pickup gives someone the façade of self-esteem on the outside but they will end up unfulfilled in their needs. 

 

Umm, okay..

11 hours ago, Highest said:

Self-actualization: ego death and the death of the mind. Now you know your path, who you are, what to use your life and time on. Then you simply are Actualized, you are not a sheep. This is a long process. Don't confuse it with self-development, that's not the same as being actualized.

So self-actualization is ego-death? 

[Ariel]

On 11.10.2017 at 11:38 AM, Damir Elezi said:

@Ariel Leo did pick up himself at some point of his life.

Leo, and most people on this forum (I think) are interested in getting the most 'juice' out of their life. As You are on this journey,  You mature and You recognize that a carreer, money, women etc. Are not the pinnacle of life and in fact block You from really deep experiences, which, for many people on here, are experiences of no-self and spiritual enlightenment. I notice that You are probably more interested in material things right now, and that's good. Get your life handled first, do the stuff You want. 

Realize that You can not stop this because this is not some movement or anything You don't need to call it self-actualization, but if You work on yourself, for example trying to become more confident, You are basically doing the work. Not every advice is meant for everyone, You know. Pick up might me the right thing for You to do. Take in the information and apply them to your own life.

 

On 12.10.2017 at 0:02 AM, Joseph Maynor said:

Here's a question for you -- In which ways do you think you can still grow and mature in life?   Can you foresee how you might think, feel, and value differently than you do now?  Do this, give me some sentences.

 

On 12.10.2017 at 0:41 AM, Serotoninluv said:

The terms "best" and "potential" are loaded terms to me. There is an ego-driven goal present. Not that there is anything "wrong" that. Yet for me, there is also an ego dissolution component that doesn't have a "best" or "potential". There is no "good" or "bad". 

What if my ego dissolved away. What would be left? It would just be.

Is a frog "better" than a tree?

 

21 hours ago, Erlend K said:

Obviously nothing is objectively better than anything else. When we talk avout "better" it is understud that we mean subjectively better. As in higher quality of life, more direction/purpose and meaning, more mastery over the activities ypu value, higher happiness, more love, sense of interconnection, awe, wonder, feeling at home in the world, peace of mind, autonomy, sence of belonging and everything else 99% of us value. 

 

16 hours ago, starsofclay said:

@Ariel From your first post I am getting that you are more interested in self-development than self-actualization. I'm not in the circle enough to know exactly what the difference is, but I do believe it's two different things, right? Right now I only practice self-development, because I was tired of being miserable. Perhaps one day I will be ready for the next step, and honestly this doesn't bother me that I'm not ready yet. 

 

15 hours ago, Saarah said:

@Ariel It reflects how we must develop to be able to function more effectively as a self

You can do what you want, and that will either have disastrous consequences or ones conducive to living a good life, this kind of acts as a guide to help you recognise what needs you're being motivated by and what are the helpful rather than damaging ways to fulfill those needs 

In your pickup example, maybe someone uses pickup to manipulate and that reduces their feelings of self-honesty, integrity and authenticity, all of which reduce self-esteem, one of the needs. You can do what you want but it will have consequences. Maybe pickup gives someone the façade of self-esteem on the outside but they will end up unfulfilled in their needs. 

 

 

11 hours ago, Highest said:

Self-actualization: ego death and the death of the mind. Now you know your path, who you are, what to use your life and time on. Then you simply are Actualized, you are not a sheep. This is a long process. Don't confuse it with self-development, that's not the same as being actualized.

 

 

---

So what do you think I should do to understand all this thing better? All this ego and self-actualization and everything. Up until now, I feel that it is complete useless. Maybe I don't understand it well. Maybe I'm too young. I don't know.

What Leo videos can I watch? Or other people? Or something? I want to make a decision if I want to dig deeper here.

[Erlend K]

Various psychologists have defined "self-actualization" is many different ways. It generaly has to do with the prosess of reaching for your full human potential, but there are no clear consesus on what the term means. Wether or not this label fits the work you are doing to improve your lifestyle or personalityis irrelevant. Just find out what areas of your lifestyle or personality you deep down feel most motivated to work on, and begin there, where you are. 

Edited October 13, 2017 by Erlend K

[starsofclay]

perhaps development is the process, and actualization is the goal? I have to admit when I first started on this forum I thought actualization was used interchangeably with enlightenment, but honestly didn't put much thought into it. (and no, I haven't watched any of leo's videos, I'm sure it was all explained at some point.)

Edited October 13, 2017 by starsofclay

[Damir Elezi]

4 hours ago, Ariel said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

---

So what do you think I should do to understand all this thing better? All this ego and self-actualization and everything. Up until now, I feel that it is complete useless. Maybe I don't understand it well. Maybe I'm too young. I don't know.

What Leo videos can I watch? Or other people? Or something? I want to make a decision if I want to dig deeper here.

Good that you ask. I find some of Leo's videos very good for beginners. I'll give you a little list of videos, I wish I had found them in this particular order

 

1. 

 

This video is good to watch first because it shows you what is possible in your life and what you can achieve. It gives you a vision you can work towards. 

 

2. 

This shows you the big picture of this whole work, what it means, what it involves etc. 

3. 

I feel like this video changed my life the most, because it really gave me the perspective that I could ACTUALLY engineer my life the way I wanted to, if I just made a strategic plan and executed it, pretty much like a general in a war. 

4. 

A very important video showing you maybe how hard this stuff is and that you have to be a results maker, rather than just planning and thinking about what you want to achieve. 

Here Leo describes some techniques and fields you can explore to actually get started. 

6. 

This video could show you how important this work is, if you really want to achieve something in life. Society comes with a lot of distractions and in my opinion, if you don't focus on working on yourself, you will probably waste your life on one of these things. 

7.

No idea how old you are (didn't look lol), but this might be helpful. 

 

You can watch these and decide afterwards if you want to spend some time doing this work or nah. If yes, you should search for topics that interest you the most. If you are just getting started, don't be bothered with all that ego-enlightenment stuff just yet. This is hard to even conceptually understand and if you are not sure if you even want to pursue this whole field, this stuff will probably just turn you off. 

But now I have a question for you: Why do you think it's useless? I hear that from many people and I actually don't get it. I mean... isn't it obvious that one has to understand himself and control himself in order to handle life? If you don't understand yourself, you basically just ride along and life could throw you into every direction possible. I am no master by all means, I'm just getting started as well, but even as a child I understood that working on oneself is necessary. So many of people's problems could be adressed, if they just looked inside, understood their psychology a little bit and used some simple techniques to control themselves so they could live a more fulfilled life. But people prefer to have the same problems over and over again and calling everything that could actually help "useless". Can you explain that to me? What turns you off about all that? 

[Elton]

On 11/10/2017 at 1:21 PM, Ariel said:

 

"Self-acutalized people embrace the unknown", what if I don't want to embrace the unknown?

Ofcourse you don't want to embrace the unknown because you are scared of the whale swallowing you.