A Crush?

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Max_V said:

@Emerald Thanks for your reaction. 

Maybe this also has some correlation with this deep inner need I have to 'find' love.

It's an extreme sensation in my stomach that sometimes just hits me. I feel lonely and so ' far out of reach ' best way to describe it. I just really want someone to hold and have a connection with.

You're welcome. I would imagine that it is related to the need to experience love. But I would give a forewarning that you may not actually find it in another person at this point if your beliefs don't allow you to. You have to find it in yourself first. Once you learn to love yourself, you can receive love from others too. But if you have subtle beliefs that you're somehow undeserving or unworthy of love, then this will keep you insulated from your experience of love. This is true even though love is the very foundation of existence. So, I recommend finding ways to let go of limiting beliefs about deserving and not deserving, and to feel comfortable loving yourself and wanting the best for yourself like a loving parent would. Then, you'll be more able to give and receive love in a relationship and you're more likely to attract someone who loves you and wants the best for you too.

[Max_V]

@Emerald Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

I'm currently working on my limiting beliefs with a psychologist. The deeper we go,  the more painful it gets. All those old things keep coming up, which is really harsh. Because of that + me being on nofap for a while now, really reveals everything that is stuck inside. I can't even imagine there being any other way to live life. So you could say, I'm making my ego healthy and strong haha.

[Emerald]

37 minutes ago, Max_V said:

@Emerald Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

I'm currently working on my limiting beliefs with a psychologist. The deeper we go,  the more painful it gets. All those old things keep coming up, which is really harsh. Because of that + me being on nofap for a while now, really reveals everything that is stuck inside. I can't even imagine there being any other way to live life. So you could say, I'm making my ego healthy and strong haha.

That's really good that you're seeing a psychologist. It's really helpful to have support to explore yourself. But I'd say that along with strengthening the ego, it's also like stream-lining the ego. You make whatever unconscious beliefs and shadow material conscious so that you can let it go. And it will make the ego less of a burden to carry and you'll have less distortion because of it.

[Spiral]

4 hours ago, Emerald said:

When you "cracked", did it feel like you got shoved a few feet back into yourself?  

Edit: Do you have any judgments of men who feel strong emotions, romantically or otherwise? Do you have the judgment that others will always hurt you in a relationship? Or do you have feelings like relationships are a waste of time? These are just some examples of limiting beliefs. These can be subtle. But if you look for these types of beliefs in yourself, it will help you become aware and actively work toward getting rid of those limiting beliefs. It will make reintegration possible.

For me at least at first felt amazing, I could do things again other then spend the whole day in bed crying and shaking.

No fear, No sadness, nothing bad at all. I felt confident like crazy in every aspect of my life. My life improved in many ways, socialy, with girls, academically.

As per judgements I don't know I don't have any negative view on guys that are really emotional, now some people I do find bit too emotional regardless of gender but don't think they are like that out of good mental health.

Never been hurt by a girl, I know that it's possible but don't have any fear of it happening to me,I do prefer long term relationships over shortterm ones despite the lack of feelings.

Now I do make plenty of judgements in general but not regarding relationships. Could it be that I judge a girl that actually could make a decent partner but I don't feel anything because of the judgements I've made? I mean I will always find something about people I don't like about them.

 

[Emerald]

6 minutes ago, Spiral said:

Now I do make plenty of judgements in general but not regarding relationships. Could it be that I judge a girl that actually could make a decent partner but I don't feel anything because of the judgements I've made? I mean I will always find something about people I don't like about them.

This is how I used to be. I had to always judge others (thought I was in denial about this). I used this judgment to be able to feel better about myself by comparison. As long as I could judge people relative to my own strengths, I could see myself in a more positive light. This was to compensate for a lack of self-love and a feeling of inferiority and worthlessness. And it temporarily made me feel better. But it made me feel more and more isolated from people an reality. And outward judgments (even though unspoke) became inward judgments that lead me to repressing many aspects of myself that I judged in others as lesser. And it was this repression that made it much harder to feel my emotions. So, I would try to look at these judgments and see how they're having an effect on your ability to be aware of certain aspects of yourself.

[Spiral]

1 minute ago, Emerald said:

This is how I used to be. I had to always judge others (thought I was in denial about this). I used this judgment to be able to feel better about myself by comparison. As long as I could judge people relative to my own strengths, I could see myself in a more positive light. This was to compensate for a lack of self-love and a feeling of inferiority and worthlessness. And it temporarily made me feel better. But it made me feel more and more isolated from people an reality. And outward judgments (even though unspoke) became inward judgments that lead me to repressing many aspects of myself that I judged in others as lesser. And it was this repression that made it much harder to feel my emotions. So, I would try to look at these judgments and see how they're having an effect on your ability to be aware of certain aspects of yourself.

Well I do it to make sure I spend time with people that add to my life. You going to be the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with and all that.

I don't want to spend time on people who I know won't make great friends or people who's priorities in life are completely different.

So if someone in my eyes has drinking problems and finds sex to be the most important thing in the world, I'm not that into being in a relationship with them because of that. It's not like I can change them anyway, so I try to find someone else.

[Emerald]

29 minutes ago, Spiral said:

Well I do it to make sure I spend time with people that add to my life. You going to be the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with and all that.

I don't want to spend time on people who I know won't make great friends or people who's priorities in life are completely different.

So if someone in my eyes has drinking problems and finds sex to be the most important thing in the world, I'm not that into being in a relationship with them because of that. It's not like I can change them anyway, so I try to find someone else.

It's okay to decide not to hang out with people for practical reasons. But if you find yourself judging without a practical reason or on a regular basis beyond what's necessary for practical functioning, then you'll want to look at it. Like, if you're talking to people and you automatically start scrutinizing them by your personal metrics, then you'll really want to become aware of that tendency. Also, there's a difference between "I don't think this person would be good to have in my life." and "This person is a low quality person." One is simply for practical purposes. The other is a condemnation of the person's character and value because of your perception of their weaknesses. The latter will definitely splash back on you and have a very negative effect on your self esteem. This is because, if you write off the value of another human being for their weaknesses, then you will definitely write off your own value every time you fail to meet your own standards. And this will likely be fairly often if you're someone with high standards. So, it gives you the option of either 1. dimming your awareness to your perceived imperfections and repressing those parts of yourself. 2. feeling terrible about yourself.

So, the main thing is simply to watch yourself mindfully as you make judgments. Don't force yourself to stop. But notice honestly whether you believe your judgment means anything real about someone's value. And then, you can find the judgments that you take most seriously, and try to find the repressed traits in yourself that relate back to that particular judgment.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Emerald

[phoenix666]

12 hours ago, Emerald said:

Detachment of the feeling from the object of the feeling is important. Because crushes often come from parts of yourself being projected onto another person. So, that's why you feel that very strong magnetism at the beginning of a relationship because you perceive the other person as being part of yourself as you've attributed unconscious parts of yourself to them. So, you can learn to integrate those aspects of yourself and grow those parts of yourself too through being able to feel positively about them in the context of your crush's personality. In order to determine if a crush is a real attraction to the other person, you have to first move past the reintegration aspect to find out if the feelings are actually for them and not just what they represent to you

oh wow, I just realized that as I read your comment. thanks for opening my eyes to this new perspective. this is so true, I can see it clearly. I really do project parts of myself onto another person. my feeling of crush gets stronger when I think about them, when I get lost in thought stories. but of course, in those thought stories I actually virtually interact with myself. of course. when I talk to them in real life I often feel an incongruence, like a judgement 'oh, I didn't imagine them to be like this' 'oh, they should react differently' 

thank you emerald! it was actually clear the whole time: I realized this summer that I never fell in love with a real person. I always fell in love with a person I made up in my head. I always felt that incongruence in real life. It's so simple; that made up person is just parts of myself. but I never thought about it this way 

but why? why do I project parts of myself onto another person? why do I then fall in love with that?

[phoenix666]

12 hours ago, Max_V said:

Maybe this also has some correlation with this deep inner need I have to 'find' love.

I feel lonely and so ' far out of reach ' best way to describe it. I just really want someone to hold and have a connection with.

this right here, I feel you. 

I feel isolated. most of the time I enjoy being alone, I love time to myself, so I can meditate, do yoga, work on the Truth. but sometimes it just hits me like a tsunami. I feel like the most lonely person in the world. like an alien. and then this strong urge to connect with someone on a deeper level, not even sexually. more like talking, sharing each other's deepest thoughts, holding each other and cuddling. 

where does this come from? is it all lack of self-worth and self-love?

[Max_V]

@phoenix666 Well for me atleast lack of self worth is a big one. I’m probably urging to find someone to prove me wrong since I can’t do it myself.

But I don’t think that’s all of it. I think this also has to do with believing ‘you’ to be a sepperate entity. That can be awfully lonely

[phoenix666]

@Max_V yeah, self worth is a big one for me too. I am working on it thou.. 

well, that's an even bigger one. I imagine it like to lines, meeting each other in a circle: you experience true love as soon as you realize that there is no separate entity. and as soon as you open your heart to real, absolute, pure, unconditional love, you realize that all is one. 

we're in for a long journey thou..

[Max_V]

@phoenix666 Haha, yes we are. But let's make the best out of it! this is so exciting and fun  

[Emerald]

17 hours ago, phoenix666 said:

oh wow, I just realized that as I read your comment. thanks for opening my eyes to this new perspective. this is so true, I can see it clearly. I really do project parts of myself onto another person. my feeling of crush gets stronger when I think about them, when I get lost in thought stories. but of course, in those thought stories I actually virtually interact with myself. of course. when I talk to them in real life I often feel an incongruence, like a judgement 'oh, I didn't imagine them to be like this' 'oh, they should react differently' 

thank you emerald! it was actually clear the whole time: I realized this summer that I never fell in love with a real person. I always fell in love with a person I made up in my head. I always felt that incongruence in real life. It's so simple; that made up person is just parts of myself. but I never thought about it this way 

but why? why do I project parts of myself onto another person? why do I then fall in love with that?

I'm glad that the comment resonated with you. I think it's because it's easier to love and nurture a part of ourselves if we can see it in another person that we admire. Sort of like, imitation is the highest form of flattery. I always tend to want to imitate these "mentor"-crush figures. So, you're able to "fall in love" with those aspects of yourself when projected upon  another person but not necessarily in yourself. So, it helps us become aware and integrate them because at a deep level, we feel a longing for that part of ourselves. We want it back from the other person. So, the desire for union with that person is very strong because it is a desire for parts of ourselves that are unconscious that we are longing to reintegrate with.

[phoenix666]

@Emerald oh, I see. yeah, it's probably easier to admire those aspects when we first externalize them. maybe because we are not used to love ourselves?  maybe because generally we've been taught by society that it is wrong to 'flatter ourselves'. I don't know about anybody else, but I generally got the message that loving and accepting myself is a form of narcissism. I can see how wrong and damaging that mentality is now. but it's been carved into my subconscious mind by this goal/success oriented society since I was a little girl. so maybe that's why I need to project those aspects onto someone else first, in order to love them?

thank you Emerald, you really got it there, completely resonates with me. I also always tend to imitate those figures. so is that ok? I just let myself imitate them, so that I can integrate those projected aspects into my character again? the difference now is, that I do all that consciously and try to stay aware of the process? it makes sense, thanks. your comments are always so insightful. you seem to know a lot about psychology 

[Emerald]

15 hours ago, phoenix666 said:

@Emerald oh, I see. yeah, it's probably easier to admire those aspects when we first externalize them. maybe because we are not used to love ourselves?  maybe because generally we've been taught by society that it is wrong to 'flatter ourselves'. I don't know about anybody else, but I generally got the message that loving and accepting myself is a form of narcissism. I can see how wrong and damaging that mentality is now. but it's been carved into my subconscious mind by this goal/success oriented society since I was a little girl. so maybe that's why I need to project those aspects onto someone else first, in order to love them?

thank you Emerald, you really got it there, completely resonates with me. I also always tend to imitate those figures. so is that ok? I just let myself imitate them, so that I can integrate those projected aspects into my character again? the difference now is, that I do all that consciously and try to stay aware of the process? it makes sense, thanks. your comments are always so insightful. you seem to know a lot about psychology 

Thank you! I do think the healthiest thing to is to allow yourself to imitate the behaviors. Imitation is how human beings learn. But also be sure not to lose other aspects of yourself in the process. And feel free to be contradictory and paradoxical.

[Gabriel Antonio]

@Emerald thank you for taking so much time and energy to write this! wow!!! lots of useful insights hehe

[Emerald]

25 minutes ago, Gabriel Antonio said:

@Emerald thank you for taking so much time and energy to write this! wow!!! lots of useful insights hehe

You're welcome and thank you!

[phoenix666]

12 hours ago, Emerald said:

And feel free to be contradictory and paradoxical.

thank you emerald <3 yeah, I already cam to peace with me being completely contradictory and paradoxical. I realized this summer that there really are no determinate characteristics to pinpoint my personality

[Sevi]

I recommend you guys to read this thread as "the other one" who is being talked about. 

Very heart breaking. Very much so. Interestingly people who are talking too much about unconditional love, are mostly the ones who is being the most discriminative and judgemental, and incapable of loving. If you hurt the other one's feelings, how in the earth, you'll experience love? How?

Oh this girl that I'm hanging out with is kind of a piece of shit, but should I really keep it on the side?/ oh that reaction he/she gave was a total red flag.. you are comfortably judging those ones.. excuse me, so who the fuck do you think you guys are??

Maybe rather than analyzing how you project your parts into the other and 'love' 'your reflections'; practice 'understanding' why and where 'the other one's' reactions come from; because when you start to 'see' and 'understand' background of the other person/people, you cannot do anything but love them. If we consider for a moment why this dame loving the other one would matter; that; I'd like to tell you.. it will because lead you to love 'yourself' fully, so that you'll feel complete and whole, and feel comfortable in your skin.

So you won't be so stressed and strict about those 5 other people 'which' will enhance your growth, you'll be worry-free; then you can embrace the whole 'world' or at least what universe brings in front of you.

This thread somehow broke my heart into pieces.

 

Edited October 14, 2017 by Sevi

[Emerald]

6 hours ago, Sevi said:

I recommend you guys to read this thread as "the other one" who is being talked about. 

Very heart breaking. Very much so. Interestingly people who are talking too much about unconditional love, are mostly the ones who is being the most discriminative and judgemental, and incapable of loving. If you hurt the other one's feelings, how in the earth, you'll experience love? How?

Oh this girl that I'm hanging out with is kind of a piece of shit, but should I really keep it on the side?/ oh that reaction he/she gave was a total red flag.. you are comfortably judging those ones.. excuse me, so who the fuck do you think you guys are??

Maybe rather than analyzing how you project your parts into the other and 'love' 'your reflections'; practice 'understanding' why and where 'the other one's' reactions come from; because when you start to 'see' and 'understand' background of the other person/people, you cannot do anything but love them. If we consider for a moment why this dame loving the other one would matter; that; I'd like to tell you.. it will because lead you to love 'yourself' fully, so that you'll feel complete and whole, and feel comfortable in your skin.

So you won't be so stressed and strict about those 5 other people 'which' will enhance your growth, you'll be worry-free; then you can embrace the whole 'world' or at least what universe brings in front of you.

This thread somehow broke my heart into pieces.

I think this advice is good in general, but likely won't be possible for many of the people who comment in this section of the forum from where they currently are. Most people on here have a lot of pain relative to interactions with the opposite gender for a number of reasons. And specifically, most of the guys on here also have a strong resistance to their feminine side because of social pressure to fit the masculine mold. So, there becomes a negative association with others who display femininity too... men and women. This repression also compounds any other issues they may be dealing with.

There is also a strong limiting belief that sexual desirability/success is equated with personal worth in an absolute way. So, the coping mechanism becomes to see the opposite gender in a really reductive, two-dimensional way and to objectify the situation by listing pluses and minuses in the same way one might considering purchasing a vehicle. This "weighing the pros and cons- quantitative thinking" happens in lieu of the ability to access their emotions and intuition which are an aspect of the feminine side that is repressed. This objectification also happens because they have created many defenses against getting hurt and protecting themselves against seeming inferior in some way.

So, what I take from your post is that you pick up on the strong vibe of objectification and failure to see the humanity in other people. And it is truly a really 'yucky' vibe to read it as a person who isn't mired in this pattern and most especially as a woman who can relate to being seen through this lens before. It feels really dismal and salts many of my own wounds relative to relationships. My automatic reaction is to want to say "shame on you." But this isn't helpful. This (likely unconscious) dehumanization and objectification helps them compensate for feeling inferior and out of control in a romantic situation (and thus their litmus test to determine their worth) by thinking and believing in such a way that gives a sense of control and power. So, admonishing someone for these types of issues and viewpoints, will feel to them like you're trying to take away what little refuge they have from pain and low self-worth. They will perceive it as you trying to snatch away their only life raft.

So, my advice to them instead would be to first drop their resistance to their feminine side within themselves and to come to appreciate the parts of themselves that they believe might make them less worthwhile. And also to recognize the desire to to so by recognizing the projection that happens onto their "objects" of desire. Then to begin to see unconditional love as valuable and possible. Then, once they get to that point, empathy and putting themselves in the other's shoes will become possible.