Are Newborns Enlightened?

[egoless]

when there is birth of child it comes to existence in this world. It has no personality, no thoughts, no ego yet! Does it know it's true nature at that point? Do any of you recall moments in your early childhood when you new your true nature and there was no separation? Exactly at what point do you think the ego creation happens? Maybe there is a room for new experiment in that regard? Observing child to grow without forcing on it to create ego? What do you think, will ego still be formed even without external factors?

Edited October 7, 2017 by egoless

[Elisabeth]

5 minutes ago, egoless said:

Maybe there is a room for new experiment in that regard? Observing child to grow without forcing on it to create ego? 

I wonder. Did two enlightened beings ever have kids? Because otherwise I don't see any way to do the experiment  (Would probably not work anyway. I don't think people can grow up, let alone meet society, without ever developping an ego. But, as they say, if you believe something's impossible, don't stand in the way of people who are doing it  )

[Nahm]

@egoless I love this post. Kids don’t know their true nature, they’re being it. Later they start thinking about it, and then, well, here we are. 

[vizual]

That's the thing; the ego was never created at all. It's all an illusion. Nothing ever really gets created. If this is true, what is the thing that is asking this question? There is no thing that is asking the question. Show me your ego and I will show you mine. The ego is an implication, you assume it to be there, somewhere. But where?

You can never exactly pinpoint in time when your physical body was created, you can also not pinpoint when the ego was created. Because both the body and the ego were never really created since the act of creation implies a creator and a creation. A duality which can not be.

Also, you can not observe anything without exerting (unconscious)influence over it. This is even proved by science. You simply cannot dissect the universe while you are in the universe. There is no way to look at the universe from a detached point of view because there is no such thing. It's like you are trying to study darkness while you got a permanent flashlight attached to your head. Every time you think you finally found the essence of darkness there your light is again... 

[krazzer]

On 6-10-2017 at 4:40 PM, egoless said:

Maybe there is a room for new experiment in that regard? Observing child to grow without forcing on it to create ego?

I'm conducting that experiment on my 1,5 year old son. So far so good.

[Forestluv]

Does enlightenment necessitate the absence of an ego?

As far as nondual and dual perspectives, I think I’ve read a sense of self starts developing around 1 year old.

When can a child recognize themself as self in a mirror?

[Forestluv]

10 hours ago, vizual said:

That's the thing; the ego was never created at all. It's all an illusion. Nothing ever really gets created. 

The concept of an ego is the cocept of an ego.

The concept the ego is an illusion is a concept the ego is an illusion.

Illusionary ego thoughts are illusionary ego thoughts.

When do illusionary ego thoughts begin?

[Joseph Maynor]

No because they aren’t aware of the ego or the distortions of the mind.

[Brimstone]

If someone told us that babies were enlightened I wonder how many of us would run out and buy nappies, lol

[Forestluv]

13 minutes ago, Brimstone said:

If someone told us that babies were enlightened I wonder how many of us would run out and buy nappies, lol

Wait a minute. . . Does this mean I need to let go of my model of the absolute truth of infantile transcendent nondual consciousness??!!

I’ve been thinking all day about it. . . 

[Brimstone]

@Serotoninluv it will only work if you are wearing a nappy, lol 

[Cuore]

I've always wondered about savage children, who grow up without all these concepts and separations created by humans and societies. I wonder what their view of the world, of themselves, is.

 

4 hours ago, krazzer said:

I'm conducting that experiment on my 1,5 year old son. So far so good.

Interesting!! May I ask how are you doing it and what the results have been so far?

[Sri McDonald Trump Maharaj]

Kind of. Spending time with "enlightened" people tends to infect you with their presence and the same thing tends to happen with babies under 4-5 years old because their sense of self hasn't showed up and the same goes for animals. They all live in the flow of life.  

 

[Forestluv]

@Sri McDonald Trump Maharaj For sure. My mind finds the whole “Just Being” thing boring as hell. But my spirit loves the livin’ with the flow thing

[pluto]

I love observing very young children that are still pure from conditioning, it amazes me the divine flow and natural wisdom they have sadly most people don't notice this they just try to teach the child and condition them to meet society's needs instead of listening to them. We can learn a lot about source just by observing them more and letting them be with merely a little of our guidance.

[Sage_Elias]

7 hours ago, krazzer said:

I'm conducting that experiment on my 1,5 year old son. So far so good.

You should tell us more about this

[krazzer]

9 hours ago, Sage_Elias said:

You should tell us more about this

I'm not really doing that much right now, as he cannot talk yet. I do however try to be as present as possible when i'm around him.

When he starts to talk and ask questions I will always be honest, and teach him that he is not his body. Which is natural to children because they always start out referring to themselves in the third person.

[krazzer]

12 hours ago, Cuore said:

Interesting!! May I ask how are you doing it and what the results have been so far?

Right now I can't really do that much but I try to infect him with my own calmness, awareness and presence. My wife is a little more 'normal' than me, but I can see that I'm slowly affecting her as well. So the effect on a child should be even more.

He is a really good sleeper and seems to learn quickly. This might be because of our calmness. But can't know for sure of course.