How Can I Be Everything If I Can Only Control My Body And Not Anything Else?

[Max_V]

As the title says, there is this belief that there must be separation because it seems like ‘I’ can move my body but I cannot move or control other things in nature.

I have watched Leo’s video on free will, currently I am trying to process how I am not the doer even though it seems like I have control over my body. Self observation is a constant practice for me right now.

 

[Leo Gura]

Except you don't even control your body. You have no idea how you walk, for example, not to mention everything else your body does every second.

Go for a walk, and notice that you have no idea how you're able to make your body move. Not a clue!

Also notice that you have no idea how your mind generates or strings together thoughts.

[egoless]

9 minutes ago, Shiva said:

The truth is we don't even control the most basic things. But it doesn't feel like it.

Do you control your breathing right now? Or is breathing happening? 

What if we answer on that - brain controls all these automatically with it's specific parts dedicated to instincts.

[AleksM]

Experience is localized in the body.

The Soul attaches a string to the body and agrees to experience only this body for the time being.

You don't have control over your experience but you always have a choice to exchange your experience in the now.

 

[Max_V]

But then, there is something that is making the decisions.

If there is a decision to go walk to my next classroom for example, what is it that is making that decision and why does it feel like ' I ' am making that decision. If there is a thought " Should I go to the classroom? " there is something that says " Yes". Who is that?

[AleksM]

@Max_V

What is the difference between an enlightened master walking to the next classroom and an ordinary man who is identified with the ego that walks to the next classroom?

The choice Will happen in both cases. But what's the difference?

[egoless]

6 minutes ago, Shiva said:

Notice that actually no decision is made. It simply happens. Also the feeling that a decision is made happens.

Next time you have a decision to make observe where do the thought that lead you to make a decision come from? Are you actually controlling them?

For example If I want to become lazy today and do nothing I can do that. Yes you will say this is not you wanting it just happens but then again what is your explanation. You also can't prove your point to others. Unless you are Enlightened and have proved it to yourself but then again you can't articulate that knowledge through words... That's the problem

[Max_V]

It's so damn confusing! what is it that makes decisions at all? 

Is there such a thing as a decision or is everything predetermined by influences?

This stuff is so awesome to think about, to even regard that I used to not consider any other possibility that I am the 'controller'. It's crazy

[egoless]

1 minute ago, Shiva said:

You're right you cannot prove it. You can only verify it for yourself.

This is a bit of my criticism for Leo. Don't get me wrong, I love the videos and they help me a lot. But he gives us the answers straight away. Most "gurus" are usually quite vague when they're asked deep questions.

And that's for a good reason: People won't be able to understand unless they're ready for the answers. A guru makes sure to the follower is ready to get the answers before he communicates it.

But of course you could not possibly do that with a YouTube video.

I find it completely opposite. Without Leo's directness most of us would not even get interested in the topic. Leo does not BS us he is straight on the point. Yes there is a trap of making all these into a new belief system. But... if you are smart about his teachings it will only trigger an interest which is highly important on this path. On the other hand one thing bothers me when communicating with each other on this forum. When somebody asks question we tend to answer him based on what we think it should be (belief system) and not based on what we have experienced through self practice so far. I have to criticize myself on that point as well not only you or others. Imho it will be more beneficial if everybody answers from his point of experience so far and not how teachings say it should be. That way we will become more open to new possibilities as a actualized.org community and together we will evade more pitfalls and traps rather than following teachings blindly. 

[Nahm]

 

 

Edited October 6, 2017 by Nahm

[Guest username]

@Max_V Become conscious of how this whole phenomena called "you" is not a separate thing. Sit down and observe, calm your mind so you are not distracted, and be VERY mindful. Notice how it occurs just as everything else. Notice how the dynamic of "you" vs. "world" is an arbitrary distinction that you create.

Notice how you make choices but those choices are determined. They just happen.  It's perfectly fine to say you've got free will and make choices, within a limited framework. Notice how that framework is born from distinction. Reality is just Being. There is no control, no power. It simply is.

Every thought, every action-- it is all just happening. 

You might say "you" are the source of this when you haven't become very conscious, but look closer. What is the source of what you call "you"?  Don't start theory-crafting and spouting ideas and beliefs when you do this; look to direct experience.

Edited October 6, 2017 by username

[Leo Gura]

You're turning this into a philosophical discussion. Instead, what's needed here, if you really care to know, is to sit down and try to directly experience all these notions like "control", "self", "I", "free will".

You're not actually experiencing them. You're just talking/thinking about them.

[Max_V]

@Leo Gura Yes, you're right. I have this problem where I tend to overconceptualize about stuff without experiencing it.

Thanks for the wake up call.

[Joseph Maynor]

Your "control" is just a sensation in awareness.  There is no control.  It's an illusory control.

Edited October 7, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Naviy]

It's interesting to notice, that any "movement of will" is registered by you only after it has already happened.

When we want to scratch our ass because it is itchy - we notice a feeling of itch, we notice some strong inner desire to scratch, then we notice feelings of muscles in our arm and hand move, then we feel how fingers scratch our ass.

Then we can say: "But I have a free will to stop myself and not to scratch my ass. Look, I'm gonna do it now". And we try - we notice inner feeling of "forcing myself not to scratch" (whatever you call it) - some desire, tension, we notice a thought that says: "Now I'm using my will not to scratch my ass", feeling of confidence in truth of this thought, etc. Then we actually manage not to scratch our ass and we say: "See, I used my free will to not scratch myself. And now I will use my free will to scratch myself" - and you do it.

But was there really "free will" among those objects that we have experienced? We have experienced itch, muscles move, desire, thoughts, etc. Was there "free will" among them? If you have not experienced free will, then you can talk about it only as about some concept or belief, and this concept or belief appears in form of feelings, visions, thoughts, sounds.

Even if you have registered some object that you labeled as "my free will", notice that you have registered it only after it has already appeared. How did it appear? Did you command it to appear? Try to look there. When I look there, I see that there is no any real sensation of "free will" and all objects just happen without command. OR I label something as "free will" but it appeared from nothing just like all other objects, without any command from me. 

Can you try to find the moment when you "give command" to your body to move? Did you "give command" for the feeling of "giving command" to appear?