What If The Absolute Truth Is Inaccessible?

[egoless]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

@egoless Doesn't matter. Even if were Buddha himself, it wouldn't help you one bit. You're not going to access the Absolute through anyone but yourself.

I know, I agree 100% - this is path to be taken alone. What I'm saying here is that I believe that if you discover something on your path which questions your whole paradigm you will tell us and not hide it from us. That will make us more conscious about possible pitfalls of this path of realization.

[cetus]

@Leo Gura This is the question that arises for me. OK so you have directly experienced the absolute . You know for yourself what the absolute is. You've seen it. You've become it.. Does the absolute experience itself also? Does it have knowledge of itself? Or is it only through the eyes of a conscious observer that it can be realized?

[Leo Gura]

19 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

Does the absolute experience itself also? Does it have knowledge of itself? Or is it only through the eyes of a conscious observer that it can be realized?

Everything is self-illuminating.

That's what this experience that you're having right now is. Self-illumination.

"Experience" is a tricky notion. It implies an observer and an observed. But in fact there's no such thing. There is BEING. BEING is self-illuminating. Which means, it's both observer and observed.

Another way to put it is: merely by virtue of the fact that something is, it is known. To exist is to be within the eye of God, so to speak, and there's nothing outside the eye of God.

It really helps to stop treating reality as something which exists behind the scenes somewhere, and instead to treat everything you see before your eyes as EXACTLY what exists, and nothing more. The mechanics of reality are completely open to you. They're happening RIGHT NOW. There is nothing behind the scenes. There is nothing hidden.

"Knowledge of itself" is also a tricky notion. What you probably mean by "knowledge" is something intellectual or mind-based, rather than BEING. In this case, knowledge (and even perception or experience) is a human capacity requiring a human body. Whereas BEING is more fundamental.

[cetus]

@Leo Gura 'I see'  said the blind man.  Everything is self-illuminating. Thanks!

[Nahm]

@cetus56 schedule that trip my good man

[cetus]

@Leo Gura I don't know if this is just the way my mind sees it but I relate to the absolute as being like the Tao.

 

[Leo Gura]

@cetus56 You can call it "cupcake" if that floats your boat

Islam alone has 100 names for God, from what I can remember. But all labels are not it.

[cetus]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

@cetus56 You can call it "cupcake" if that floats your boat

Islam alone has 100 names for God, from what I can remember.

Haha I hear you. I was attempting to point at something that is nameless and undefinable. 'For lack of a better word I call it the Tao'

[Mondsee]

12 hours ago, egoless said:

I will try to logically prove that there is a possibility that Absolute Truth may exist and it may be inaccessible to us forever. Let's say you reached your final stage of Enlightenment and you are now one with the reality. How will you be sure that there is not something else or some unimaginable rule of the game which is still hidden from you? Let's say someone created our reality and rules of our reality. These rules would guarantee that every content which is inside that reality stays inside of it and does not have access to the outside dimension of the creator. For example software can't escape the computer hardware and move to our reality right? What if our infinite reality is trapped in something similar to that computer and even if we become Enlightened- feel oneness of that "computer" there is still something outside of it? What if something exists outside of reality - something which is not reality and is unimaginable for us even for the Enlightened person's consciousness? Then the main question arises - What is the point of pursuing the Truth if the possibility of delusion always stays open? What if we escape from the Matrix - the second layer of matrix still exists and we are trapped in it?

@Leo Gura I remember when you used to ask yourself the same thing! Now it seems like you're becoming more like Peter!

 

[egoless]

33 minutes ago, Mondsee said:

@Leo Gura I remember when you used to ask yourself the same thing! Now it seems like you're becoming more like Peter!

 

Thank you for sharing this video! Haven't heard about that man before is he Enlightened?

[cetus]

I thought it was interesting when Peter said 'You can go on creating more distinctions forever-Why?-  that's the nature of consciousness'.

I wouldn't trust anything that arises within consciousness as the absolute. What is not a distinction arising within consciousness?

[cetus]

 

 

[Brimstone]

8 hours ago, cetus56 said:

I wouldn't trust anything that arises within consciousness as the absolute. 

Does the absolute make such distinctions?

8 hours ago, cetus56 said:

What is not a distinction arising within consciousness?

A distinction?

 

[Joseph Maynor]

Truth is just what is perceived minus thought augmentation.

Basically, you need to realize how the Mind is freaking up your reality.

Edited October 7, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[RichardY]

I think if the absolute truth were easily accessible, it would be something like Raiders of the Lost Ark. I guess the Ark is a symbol for Absolute Truth.

The whole Descarte Dualism about the primacy of experienced reality i.e is there another layer of reality, brain in a vat scenario. I resolve by going with the primacy of consciousness, with matter and animals exhibiting different levels of consciousness. The Dualism of reality argument also implies infinite regress which would also have to be accepted, as well as the Euthyphro scenario (whether the gods love the pious because it is the pious, or whether the pious is pious only because it is loved by the gods). Instead of just being.

Psychologically though I think most people act as though Dualism is actual, Yes or No, Choice, Personal Freewill, Determinism etc. 

 

 

[cetus]

12 hours ago, Brimstone said:

Does the absolute make such distinctions?

@Brimstone??? of course not.  That's like asking if a cloud knows it's heading east.

 

12 hours ago, Brimstone said:

A distinction?

Yea, a distinction. Peter Ralston talks about 'distinctions in consciousness' and I quoted him. He also mentions there is a whole section of his new book that discusses distinctions.

 

[Mondsee]

@egoless very much so!

[egoless]

Just now, Mondsee said:

@egoless very much so!

why does he have so few youtube followers and so few videos? Where can I check more videos?

[Mondsee]

8 minutes ago, egoless said:

why does he have so few youtube followers and so few videos? Where can I check more videos?

Well, probably he isn't focused in online presence very much. I have no idea where you can find more videos, but I guess he has a website and a huge book full of insight, maybe check those out.

[egoless]

On 10/6/2017 at 3:32 PM, Mondsee said:

@Leo Gura I remember when you used to ask yourself the same thing! Now it seems like you're becoming more like Peter!

 

 

@Leo Gura How did you understand his words then and now? Do you see what he was saying to you back then now? Do you understand this now?