What If The Absolute Truth Is Inaccessible?

[egoless]

I will try to logically prove that there is a possibility that Absolute Truth may exist and it may be inaccessible to us forever. Let's say you reached your final stage of Enlightenment and you are now one with the reality. How will you be sure that there is not something else or some unimaginable rule of the game which is still hidden from you? Let's say someone created our reality and rules of our reality. These rules would guarantee that every content which is inside that reality stays inside of it and does not have access to the outside dimension of the creator. For example software can't escape the computer hardware and move to our reality right? What if our infinite reality is trapped in something similar to that computer and even if we become Enlightened- feel oneness of that "computer" there is still something outside of it? What if something exists outside of reality - something which is not reality and is unimaginable for us even for the Enlightened person's consciousness? Then the main question arises - What is the point of pursuing the Truth if the possibility of delusion always stays open? What if we escape from the Matrix - the second layer of matrix still exists and we are trapped in it?

Edited October 6, 2017 by egoless

[Nahm]

@egoless You're going to logically prove to yourself that the absolute truth is inaccessible to you?  You can actually experience one with all, and then alone and all is illusion. Love. Those experiences are so transcendental to logical thought, that you would have your answer to this question, because you would have transcended the asker of the question. Escape the matrix. Love it!!!! ?

[Naturalist]

The absolute truth is that all things would either fall into the category of something or the category of no-thing ad infinitum.  There’s no two ways about it.

No-thing means absence.  But an absence of any or all units under consideration is not equivalent to nothingness of any or all units under consideration.  Therefore, absence is not about nothingness but instead it is about no-thing-ness.  

No thing means no becoming or no changing.  No changing means no suffering.  No suffering means no mind.  Mind is the forerunner of all states.  No mind means a completely neutralised state of affairs - that is nibbāna as per Buddhism. 

[Brimstone]

There is a lot of legitimacy to this question @egoless , as no one is known to have ever gone beyond the beyond that is beyond, beyond, as what is clear is that our conditioning is limited. Or in other words we just don't have the tools at our disposal.

Just as interesting though is that is the idea itself the last breath of ego, the ace up the sleeve, to keep a hold of the castle? After all ego needs something to chase, a sense of purpose to attach itself to and gain legitimacy doesn't it?

Further to that Enlightenment implies that there is no enlightenment without a doubt as the idea of an absolute dream caves in on itself once it acknowledges the absolute, as enlightenment can not be excluded.

What is clear is that having mind conditioned by an experience of 'an absolute' or to become 'enlightened' in its purest form brings about a ' state' abundant in peace love clarity and compassion to those who have been afforded the gift of resting deep within. It is obvious.

Although in saying that what is also interesting is that people who do not chase enlightenment and follow different doctrines of being also have the ability to tap into something that also produces the same fruits, which implies that the ultimate can be experienced wearing a number of masks, and again if you recognise The Ultimate as the base, wether seen as illusion or real, it is non exclusive from within the enlightened state.

Who knows, perhaps The Absolute actually has a personality disorder and in actuality is really course and callous and enlightenment is only a smoke screen to mask that fact. I mean seriously look at the world we live in and the atrocities we see every day, if the Absolute is all, and is what is, then that is some pretty twisted shizzle right there, and to become enlightened we actually become ignorant to the reality of harshness, after all ignorance is bliss.

Personally, I prefer the beauty and pureness of the enlightened notion of The Absolute, although any question that unconditions is a good thing.

Namaste

 

Edited October 6, 2017 by Brimstone

[Forestluv]

For me, your model breaks down when you include duality: inside vs. outside.

[Brimstone]

Language will always be limited pointing towards That  @Serotoninluv so I wouldn't concern myself too much.

The premise of what egoless is saying though is actually correct to a point, being that Absolute Truth is inaccessible. Truth is that Absolute is void, in other words there is nothing to know, which is what makes it inaccessible to knowing.

 

[Forestluv]

@Brimstone Accessibility needs two separate entities - one trying to gain access to the other. So yea, it’s inaccessible.

 

[Leo Gura]

@egoless You won't understand until you find yourself there.

From the unenlightened perspective, enlightenment may not be possible. Hence a leap of faith is required.

Who knows, maybe one day you'll discover it is absolutely impossible and this was all just a hoax.

[Brimstone]

Exactly, how does one travel from A to B when there is no gap between them? It is impossible. That is why language is limited in interpreting non-dual concepts. It's just how it is.

Personally speaking, questioning the idea of enlightenment is helping to erode residue as after realising Absolute-Truth, after some time the idea that I am enlightened arose which was an entirely different beast in itself, which I have been wrestling with. That is ego at its best creating a claim over Story. Enlighten me, and expanding on what egoless expressed, how can no-me become enlightened, when there is no-me, and where does that leave the 'idea' of 'enlightenment'? Can you see how asking the question then erodes the attachment to the idea that I am Enlightened, which is an idea that dictates the exact opposite.

In reality my brain just has a bad case of flatulence so you should just take everything I say with a grain of salt.

Much love

Edited October 6, 2017 by Brimstone

[Nahm]

Thinking is one hell of a set up, and silence is one hell of a punchline. 

[Brimstone]

That is hilarious @Nahm do you mind if I use it, lol?

 

[Nahm]

Lol. Flattered. 

 

Lmao

[egoless]

My main point here is that even after Enlightenment how are you sure that you aren't still playing by "somebody's" rules? What if there are other dimensions where rules do not exist at all and hence they can "exist" outside of even existence and nonexistence??????

Edited October 6, 2017 by egoless

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, egoless said:

My main point here is that even after Enlightenment how are you sure that you aren't still playing by "somebody's" rules? What if there are other dimensions where rules do not exist at all and hence they can "exist" outside of even existence and nonexistence??????

Like I said, that's a fair concern for your current POV.

But what you're failing to appreciate is that absolute means ABSOLUTE. TOTAL. There is nothing beyond it because it is includes EVERYTHING. So your concern is addressed by the revelation. Which is precisely why it's such a huge revelation. It's not like you just discover a new planet. It's a much bigger thing. It's more like you discover every single atom in every imaginable universe. So there's no more point in asking the question, "But what if there's some other cool planet out there somewhere?"

[egoless]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Like I said, that's a fair concern for your current POV.

But what you're failing to appreciate is that absolute means ABSOLUTE. TOTAL. There is nothing beyond it because it is included everything possible.

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@egoless You won't understand until you find yourself there.

From the unenlightened perspective, enlightenment may not be possible. Hence a leap of faith is required.

Who knows, maybe one day you'll discover it is absolutely impossible and this was all just a hoax.

Leo, since you are very close to the full realization. tell me with 100% honesty if you believe that Absolute Truth is available for us and there is no doubt afterwards. I read that you had some questions on that topic in the past. Did something change since those times? Did you receive answers?

[Leo Gura]

@egoless What I believe will not help you.

[egoless]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@egoless What I believe will not help you.

It will help me to make the leap of belief as you say... Because I trust your teaching - I trust that you are always willing to be open to new possibilities even if that means that all these years were wasted for you! I trust that Truth is your only concern

Edited October 6, 2017 by egoless

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, egoless said:

I trust your teaching.

That is the whole problem, don't you see?

All teachings are false.

[egoless]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That is the whole problem, don't you see?

All teachings are false.

Yes, I made it more clear I edited my message. I meant another thing. I trust in you in that regard because I trust myself that I am able to read people's authenticity. And Truth is your only concern as I see even if this means the loss of whole actualized.org for you. That's why I respect you!

Edited October 6, 2017 by egoless

[Leo Gura]

@egoless Doesn't matter. Even if I were Buddha himself, it wouldn't help you one bit. You're not going to access the Absolute through anyone but yourself.

Sit down and do the work. The more silly philosophical questions you ask, the slower it will be.

This whole discussion is just a distraction from doing the work. Which is precisely why it's being had. Nothing wrong with that per se, but enlightened it will not make you.