Sympathy Instead Of Antagonism Towards The Ego?

[Aimblack]

I've recently had an insight that has helped me make a lot of progress and I'd like to hear your thoughts on it. When I see Leo talk about the ego he talks about it like the ego is the enemy, something that has to be fought, an entity that is always scheming and tricking to keep the illusion of control and power and only after a struggle and after the fight has been won can the true self emerge.

My insight was basically the opposite the ego is like a weak,frightened and wounded little child and all my actions as an ego are taken to make existence a little bit less painful and that is the only way the ego knows to cope..so ultimately what the ego needs is complete acceptance, love and patience. And I wonder whether the antagonistic language isn't doing more harm than good.

Of course different strokes for different folks but I'd still like to hear your opinions. If I am wrong, where did I go wrong and how have I misled myself.

[Joseph Maynor]

@Aimblack  There are people on here who know more than me, but I think the answer is that the Ego is an illusion.  It is not real.  Therefore, it should not be honored. 

I thought like you until I realized fully that there is no free will and that honoring the Ego only causes a lot of mental suffering for me.  Basically, thoughts are thinking they have control over you -- which they don't.  Reality is already doing what reality is doing regardless of what thoughts think about it.

The Ego is fully an illusion.  So, when it is clung to, it only causes you suffering through bad Karma.  Bad Karma can be thought of throwing sand into the wind and having it come back into your face and eyes.  It's sowing the seeds of suffering basically.  Honoring the Ego causes bad Karma.

You gotta realize there is no Egoic you, no free will, and no control.  The Ego is thoughts fooling themselves that a "part" of reality is a self-controlling thing.  There is no part of reality though, that is a thought.  Reality is non-dual.  You can see the no-free will realization by letting go and realizing that your life still goes on!  It's a bit freaky when you see this.  This was one of my most profound enlightenment experiences when I noticed this for the first time.  There's no you in there controlling things!  It's all just happening as one giant reality flow.

Videos to watch:

 

Edited October 4, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Aimblack]

@Joseph Maynor Yea the same applies to me probably even more. But I don't see how that is actually relevant right now. Because although conceptually I understand that the ego is an illusion, I don't have a direct experience of that right now if you do I hope you have a bit of patience. 

To elaborate I'm going to use this example.Imagine that all your dreams are as vivid as being awake and you only know after you have awoken that you have been dreaming. Imagine now that every time you go to sleep you have the worst nightmares ever and go see a therapist and he tells you: "Don't worry about it those are just dreams." 

[Brimstone]

It's true @Aimblack that which is absolute doesn't deny anything, including ego, although 'doesn't deny anything' is done without attachment. The crux is that to fully realise that you need to let it all go, although sure another path in is to accept it all which works as well. The is no correct path, only pointers and you have to enquire as to what resonates within you until there is nothing left, cause yeh the reality is that when you see who you really are, absolutely everything falls away, which is what makes everything so beautiful, that is how both paths work, that is the path less path.

 

[Aimblack]

@Brimstone @Maxx @Joseph Maynor

Thanks guys you've given me much to work on. I don't want to just give a knee-jerk reaction so i'll just work through what you have given me and eventually come back. 

[ZX_man]

@Aimblack

Your loving presence is what gives things the space they need to let go. At a certain level of consciousness you begin to accept the innocence within all things. This includes your ego. Every action that has ever happened in this world happened because it was believed to be the right action at the time. Once you see this, and love and accept everything exactly how it is, does things like the ego finally begin let go.

 

Forgiveness is the root of all healing.

Edited October 5, 2017 by ZX_man

[Heart of Space]

Yea, I actually disagree with the vilification of ego quite a bit in a lot of cases.  It is a scared and ignorant child that needs reassurance and love.  When it gets that it naturally tends to surrender itself to the natural flow of the world.  

Also, I think a lot of the purpose of saying the ego is 'satan' is a metaphor that serves the purpose of helping people perceive it in a way they're not used to.  As in, usually people point the finger outwards and proclaim things external are evil or the enemy when in reality there own ego is the source of the perception of it.  

Both views have a valid purpose and use.

[zenjen]

On 10/4/2017 at 4:52 PM, Aimblack said:

I've recently had an insight that has helped me make a lot of progress and I'd like to hear your thoughts on it. When I see Leo talk about the ego he talks about it like the ego is the enemy, something that has to be fought, an entity that is always scheming and tricking to keep the illusion of control and power and only after a struggle and after the fight has been won can the true self emerge.

My insight was basically the opposite the ego is like a weak,frightened and wounded little child and all my actions as an ego are taken to make existence a little bit less painful and that is the only way the ego knows to cope..so ultimately what the ego needs is complete acceptance, love and patience. And I wonder whether the antagonistic language isn't doing more harm than good.

3

@Aimblack I think of the ego as a small, sad child who is wearing a frightening mask. The ego is trying to scare you into compliance, but it is also covering up the love that the true self needs.

Edited October 6, 2017 by zenjen

[Nahm]

@Aimblack The truth is you're love and absolutely blissfully alone, whole and perfect. Sympathy for what convinces you otherwise & works against you is not going to help you. How could you fight against your own ego even if you wanted to? It would be the ego that fights. Try scratching your eyeball with your eyeball. The ego is surrendered, not fought. 

[Forestluv]

@Aimblack My path involved 25 years of self improvement. I worked a lot to improve my self, to develop a positive self image. That fragile, insecure self became confident and independent. My life greatly improved.

After 25 years of strengthening, it seems I may finally have a self/ego that is strong enough to die. It has been a difficult process with fear and struggle. Several times have been so intense, I said enough - never again. Yet I keep getting the calling to return.

I can’t imagine working through this with a weak ego. I just wouldn’t have done it

Edited October 6, 2017 by Serotoninluv

[Forestluv]

@Joseph Maynor I intellectually acknowledged the ego as an illusion for 20 years. I went through all the letting go and surrender motions. It wasn’t until I went to the ego-death zone with psychedelics  that shit got real. Entering the insanity zone and having all control stripped away has at times included struggle, intense anxiety and even terror. My days of meditation and group discussions on letting go of the ego and developing a compassionate heart is like a warm blanket and s’mores compared to facing ego-death head on. 

Edited October 6, 2017 by Serotoninluv

[Heart of Space]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

@Aimblack The truth is you're love and absolutely blissfully alone, whole and perfect. Sympathy for what convinces you otherwise & works against you is not going to help you. How could you fight against your own ego even if you wanted to? It would be the ego that fights. Try scratching your eyeball with your eyeball. The ego is surrendered, not fought. 

That's his point, lil Nom Nahm's.  It's the ego that is being antagonistic to the ego when it labels it as this sort of villainous entity.  That can mislead you to misunderstand the structure of ego and its fundamental motives.  Being loving towards it melts it away and reveals it's true reasons for doing the things it does and it's often very pitiable motives relating to hurt and fear.  

I only really responded because I wanted to call you by my cute new nick name for you, Nom Nahms.  

[Nahm]

@Heart of Space the ego is antagonistic to love. I love the nom nahms. I'm hearing the Cookie Monster! Cheers!  Reminds me of that joke where the gynecologist says "would you like me to numb that for you?"   Have you already heard that one?

[Heart of Space]

3 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Heart of Space the ego is antagonistic to love. I love the nom nahms. I'm hearing the Cookie Monster! Cheers!  Reminds me of that joke where the gynecologist says "would you like me to numb that for you?"   Have you already heard that one?

It can be antagonistic to love absolutely.  But being antagonistic to ego can potentially compound the problem.  Do you disagree with that?  Haven't heard the joke.  How does it go, nom nom?

Edited October 6, 2017 by Heart of Space

[Nahm]

@Heart of Space she says “sure”. And he says “num num num num num num num num num”