Why Are Men So Concerned With How To Be A Man?

[Damir Elezi]

I noticed there are tons of books and videos about how to be a "real man", but nobody seems concerned with the question of what a woman is or how a woman should be. And if they do, most of the time they are labelled feminazis. Is the concept of masculinity being some sort of value actually valid? I mean, every man is different right? Sometimes this stuff just seems like a huge inferiority complex men Try to compensate. What are your thoughts about that?

[Damir Elezi]

@Mad Max I understand that, but if aggression, sexual drive and the need to protect and provide are generally parts of the psychology of a man, which traits then are generally and typically female?

I'm a guy btw just wondering because I never even bothered to think about this stuff before I got into PD. I knew there were some differences but I didn't think and somehow still doubt that men and women have an 'opposite wiring' in some sort. And it just kinda confuses me that there are all kinds of concepts and idea about masculinity, what being a real man means, while women don't seem to give a fuck about that at all.

[Emerald]

13 hours ago, Damir Elezi said:

I noticed there are tons of books and videos about how to be a "real man", but nobody seems concerned with the question of what a woman is or how a woman should be. And if they do, most of the time they are labelled feminazis. Is the concept of masculinity being some sort of value actually valid? I mean, every man is different right? Sometimes this stuff just seems like a huge inferiority complex men Try to compensate. What are your thoughts about that?

We live in a society that really likes the masculine principle but really dis-likes (or is completely oblivious to the nature of) the feminine principle. This has been true throughout the course of written history... especially in the west. In many ways, this works in men's favor because the social structures that we still use today were all built for and by men and are very Yang oriented. This sounds like it would be a pretty sweet deal. And when it comes to men who have high social standing, then it absolutely is.

But despite the perks, things are not all sunshine and rainbows. This is especially true for men who don't have a high status. Since, up until the past few generations, it has been taken for granted that men are superior to women, men have been expected to live up to the expectation of superiority to women. So, anything that could be perceived as woman-like in a man's nature has historically been a major status-killer. Even today, some people still subscribe to this notion, though I think it's very unfortunate and sends us backwards. So, if a man fails to be strong, capable, and stoic then he loses his social power because he is seen as woman-like as women are seen as weak, incapable, and emotional. So, the "be a man" rhetoric is conditioned into men and actually covers over their natural masculinity. That's why men really have to break their backs simply to fit into the "man" mold simply to be looked upon favorably by society. A man has much further to fall if he fails to match up. To find a man who is actually able to tune out this rhetoric and simply be his natural self without falling over on the other side and repressing his masculinity, is quite rare and refreshing.

The reason why "be a woman" isn't a rhetoric, is because VERY FEW people in this society think that "being a woman" is actually a desirable thing to be. That's why "woman up" isn't a saying, because womanhood is the very thing the idea of "man up" is said in contrast to. Womanhood is what's meant to be avoided. You'll even find that most women have internalized this mindset and decide to identify more in a masculine way. Many women only want the beauty aspect of femininity, but otherwise want to just be seen as just "one of the guys."

However, I have a feeling that the feminine principle will come into public favor in the future as we move toward a better society. And this will take actually becoming aware of what femininity actually is and not just seeing it as a synonym for feminine beauty. Femininity is actually quite a deep and broad topic. But right now we only see the tip of the ice berg, which is the social association with the word feminine. So, motherhood, beauty, and emotional sensitivity are mostly what we associate with the feminine. But there are many other aspects like being, stillness, cycles, compassion, respect for the Earth and its creatures, mystery, the subconscious mind, the material world, psychological awareness, wisdom, beauty, intuition, motherhood, emotional awareness, and many others. There are also shadow feminine traits, but I just focused on the positive.

[Damir Elezi]

@Emerald Very interesting. I think I should ask a deeper question: What is the male principle, what is the female principle and how do we know? And is this exclusive to males and females? If not, why call it male or female at all?

[SFRL]

I think the role a man is expected to play in society, is much more confined then that of a woman. 

Women don't have as restrictive of a gender role as men. 

Women also don't have very hard lined ego/identity boundaries like men. Women are much more open and flexible towards other opinions, other religions, other races, other sexual orientation, other everything really. That makes sense because the role of women naturally is relationship forming and caring for others. 

Men on the other hand have much stronger boundaries. That makes sense as well because the role of men naturally is to hold their ground. Men need to protect others from enemies and wild animals, and be full harding to take down the Mammoth so to speak. Or plow a field of crops while they are baking in the sun, or it's raining. A man is not wired to make friends like a woman. 

Since a woman is much more open and fluid she can basically just "be herself" and she will find her place in society. 

For a man he needs to train up to that confined role that he is expected to play. So that takes time and effort like becoming anything else.

You see it in all cultures and trough all ages. Traditionally men in tribes need to pass a rite before they are considered a man. 

Also back in the day boys were often send away from home to a mentor once they reached puberty. 

 

Edited October 4, 2017 by SFRL

[Emerald]

3 hours ago, Damir Elezi said:

@Emerald Very interesting. I think I should ask a deeper question: What is the male principle, what is the female principle and how do we know? And is this exclusive to males and females? If not, why call it male or female at all?

These are great questions. It's actually a complex and multi-faceted topic, and can be confusing to talk about. So, I want to clarify a handful of different ideas that relate to this topic.

Yang: The primordial energy that is the opposite of Yin energy. It is one half of the binary code that creates all of reality. The nature of this energy is concerned with doing, expansion, ideals, ideas, and all things spiritual and non-material. It is related to the elements air and fire, as it has no substance on its own but is concerned with transforming substances. It has an implicit tie to the masculine principle. This supersedes human gender and is inherent to all living and non-living systems. A system isn't truly a system without it.

Yin: The primordial energy that is the opposite of Yang energy. It is the other half of the binary code that creates all of reality. The nature of this energy is concerned wit being, contraction, reality prior to interpretation, and all things related to matter and materiality. It is pure substance with no movement or transformation. It is simply being. It has an implicit tie to the feminine principle. This supersedes human gender and is inherent to all living and non-living systems. A system isn't truly a system without it.

The masculine principle: All expressions that are an expression of Yang energy as is generally recognized across unrelated cultures and in esoteric texts. Human beings have always associated this to men and masculinity because it is the closest humanity-related metaphor that relates to these traits and ideas. Men as a group generally express more of these traits as they tend to have more Yang energy. But this is not always the case. Some examples of this can be found in similarities in polytheistic religions. You will often find sky gods and Earth goddesses in most cultures. There are a few that have it the other way around, but those are exceptions. There are also human traits, strengths, weaknesses, and tendencies that are part of the masculine principle. But the principle isn't real like the energy is. It's just a comprehensive framework for understanding the many expressions of Yang... as Yang is a subtle energy. This also supersedes human gender as it contains both human and non-human aspects.

The feminine principle: All expressions that are an expression of Yin energy as it is generally recognized across unrelated cultures and in esoteric texts. Human beings have always associated this to women and femininity because it is the closest humanity-related metaphor that relates to these traits and ideas. Women as a group generally express more of these traits as they tend to have more Yin energy. But this is not always the case. Another example of the feminine and masculine principle can be found in the Hindu Goddess Durga. She is representative of the interplay of Yin and Yang in the universe. She has the body of a Goddess and represents being and the energy source of all life. But she has many arms which are each an arm of a male God. And they hold his weapon of choice. So she also represents doing and particularity. Durga is meant to represent the workings of how being and doing work together in all things. There are also human traits, strengths, weaknesses, and tendencies that are part of the feminine principle. But the principle isn't real like the energy is. It's just a comprehensive framework for understanding the many expressions of Yin... as Yin is a subtle energy. This also supersedes human gender as it contains both human and non-human aspects.

Masculinity: All traits ascribed to manhood within a particular culture. This is limited to human gender and is often frequently solely socially constructed and may not even have a tie to Yang. Sometimes it will be a true expression of Yang. But other times, it is just social understandings about what relates most to manhood. For example, in America in the 1700s it was considered manly to where powdered wigs and face powder. But we may see it as very feminine or just plain weird. Social understandings of masculinity often get in the way of a person's ability to truly be in touch with and express Yang energy.

Femininity: All traits ascribed to womanhood within a particular culture. This is limited to human gender and is often frequently solely socially constructed and may not even have a tie to Yin. Sometimes it will be a true expression of Yin. But other times, it is just social understandings about what relates most to womanhood. For example, wearing make-up in most modern cultures is considered feminine. But it was considered masculine in many societies as it was used as war paint.

Gender: Human beings are always androgynous in varying degrees because Yin and Yang are required to create life. No man is made from sperm alone, nor any woman made from an egg alone. The interplay of Yin and Yang energy creates life itself and it creates the human personality. And the Yin/Yang signature is pre-conditioned and immutable, and finds expression through socially constructed means. To close yourself off to one or the other energy because of ideas of how a man or woman should be is one of the biggest barriers to authenticity and truly thriving as a whole human being. It stifles your life energy to repress Yin or Yang from your awareness. Most of the time, men will have a higher degree of Yang relative to Yin energy and vice versa for women. But there are as many types of Yin/Yang signatures as there are individual humans. So, the man=Yang and woman=Yin idea is very over-simplified. We're all a lot more complex than that.

Edit: So, to answer you question, the reason why we relate these things to maleness and femaleness is because the energies of Yang and Yin 'feel' man-like and woman-like. When I experienced ego transcendence, I was able to pick up on feminine energy, and it felt feminine. So, male-energy and female-energy (generally speaking) are just the most similar human expression to Yang and Yin. So, it's used as a quasi-metaphor for understanding... but it also has a real similarity because you can experience Yang when experiencing someone with a masculine personality and you can experience Yin when experiencing someone with a feminine personality, regardless of gender.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Emerald

[ajasatya]

@Damir Elezi because right now, with the current median genotype of mankind, men are strongly hardwired to try to excel, thrive and, thus, copulate.

of course you can become free, but it requires some deep self hacking method like hardcore yoga.

[YaNanNallari]

Men want some model for their life or they accept this current one in search for approval or status. I think the manly way that is advertised can produce results but it is a very neurotic way to live and the direction of the results is obviously questionable. It can be hard to get out of it because it is unclear how one should think then and it's a protected bubble as well. You'll actually have to figure it out for yourself how to think and live if you want to get out of it.

I think that even though there are feminine and masculine tendencies when it comes to yourself it's not that necessary to think about them. It can be good to think about what sides you might be resisting and open up to them. After that I think it's more about just settling down to something that works without worrying about if it's feminine or masculine. Dropping any other roles or thing you identify with helps with this. With high enough consciousness you will start seeing the natural beauty and joy and you will start acting upon things without having to follow a model. As is said with beliefs first you try to improve them and after that you let them go. You do need some roles and guidance but I would assume that the more consciousness one has the simpler the role is.

As I heard Mooji jokingly say, "It is much easier to become enlightened than to figure out all of these problems of how things should be." I think it is the same way with our gender roles in the end. A perfect mix is hard to conceptualize when it also depends on the situation how one should act, one can never really be sure of how things should be.

What mad max was talking about being "manliness" might indeed be a true thing, but it honestly sounds to be coming from the ego at the same time and not something one needs to follow in life. Ego shouldn't be repressed but understood and accepted. He is right about women also having roles though.

Edited October 4, 2017 by YaNanNallari
Added stuff

[Damir Elezi]

8 hours ago, Emerald said:

These are great questions. It's actually a complex and multi-faceted topic, and can be confusing to talk about. So, I want to clarify a handful of different ideas that relate to this topic.

Yang: The primordial energy that is the opposite of Yin energy. It is one half of the binary code that creates all of reality. The nature of this energy is concerned with doing, expansion, ideals, ideas, and all things spiritual and non-material. It is related to the elements air and fire, as it has no substance on its own but is concerned with transforming substances. It has an implicit tie to the masculine principle. This supersedes human gender and is inherent to all living and non-living systems. A system isn't truly a system without it.

Yin: The primordial energy that is the opposite of Yang energy. It is the other half of the binary code that creates all of reality. The nature of this energy is concerned wit being, contraction, reality prior to interpretation, and all things related to matter and materiality. It is pure substance with no movement or transformation. It is simply being. It has an implicit tie to the feminine principle. This supersedes human gender and is inherent to all living and non-living systems. A system isn't truly a system without it.

The masculine principle: All expressions that are an expression of Yang energy as is generally recognized across unrelated cultures and in esoteric texts. Human beings have always associated this to men and masculinity because it is the closest humanity-related metaphor that relates to these traits and ideas. Men as a group generally express more of these traits as they tend to have more Yang energy. But this is not always the case. Some examples of this can be found in similarities in polytheistic religions. You will often find sky gods and Earth goddesses in most cultures. There are a few that have it the other way around, but those are exceptions. There are also human traits, strengths, weaknesses, and tendencies that are part of the masculine principle. But the principle isn't real like the energy is. It's just a comprehensive framework for understanding the many expressions of Yang... as Yang is a subtle energy. This also supersedes human gender as it contains both human and non-human aspects.

The feminine principle: All expressions that are an expression of Yin energy as it is generally recognized across unrelated cultures and in esoteric texts. Human beings have always associated this to women and femininity because it is the closest humanity-related metaphor that relates to these traits and ideas. Women as a group generally express more of these traits as they tend to have more Yin energy. But this is not always the case. Another example of the feminine and masculine principle can be found in the Hindu Goddess Durga. She is representative of the interplay of Yin and Yang in the universe. She has the body of a Goddess and represents being and the energy source of all life. But she has many arms which are each an arm of a male God. And they hold his weapon of choice. So she also represents doing and particularity. Durga is meant to represent the workings of how being and doing work together in all things. There are also human traits, strengths, weaknesses, and tendencies that are part of the feminine principle. But the principle isn't real like the energy is. It's just a comprehensive framework for understanding the many expressions of Yin... as Yin is a subtle energy. This also supersedes human gender as it contains both human and non-human aspects.

Masculinity: All traits ascribed to manhood within a particular culture. This is limited to human gender and is often frequently solely socially constructed and may not even have a tie to Yang. Sometimes it will be a true expression of Yang. But other times, it is just social understandings about what relates most to manhood. For example, in America in the 1700s it was considered manly to where powdered wigs and face powder. But we may see it as very feminine or just plain weird. Social understandings of masculinity often get in the way of a person's ability to truly be in touch with and express Yang energy.

Femininity: All traits ascribed to womanhood within a particular culture. This is limited to human gender and is often frequently solely socially constructed and may not even have a tie to Yin. Sometimes it will be a true expression of Yin. But other times, it is just social understandings about what relates most to womanhood. For example, wearing make-up in most modern cultures is considered feminine. But it was considered masculine in many societies as it was used as war paint.

Gender: Human beings are always androgynous in varying degrees because Yin and Yang are required to create life. No man is made from sperm alone, nor any woman made from an egg alone. The interplay of Yin and Yang energy creates life itself and it creates the human personality. And the Yin/Yang signature is pre-conditioned and immutable, and finds expression through socially constructed means. To close yourself off to one or the other energy because of ideas of how a man or woman should be is one of the biggest barriers to authenticity and truly thriving as a whole human being. It stifles your life energy to repress Yin or Yang from your awareness. Most of the time, men will have a higher degree of Yang relative to Yin energy and vice versa for women. But there are as many types of Yin/Yang signatures as there are individual humans. So, the man=Yang and woman=Yin idea is very over-simplified. We're all a lot more complex than that.

Edit: So, to answer you question, the reason why we relate these things to maleness and femaleness is because the energies of Yang and Yin 'feel' man-like and woman-like. When I experienced ego transcendence, I was able to pick up on feminine energy, and it felt feminine. So, male-energy and female-energy (generally speaking) are just the most similar human expression to Yang and Yin. So, it's used as a quasi-metaphor for understanding... but it also has a real similarity because you can experience Yang when experiencing someone with a masculine personality and you can experience Yin when experiencing someone with a feminine personality, regardless of gender.

Wow. Just Wow can you give me some sources so I can read up about this stuff? So as I understand, masculine energy, when it's an expression of yang, does not really have any substance So that's why men tend to "work towards" becoming a "real man" while women, expressing yin energy do that out of their inborn nature. Is that an explanation? 

Do you think it's worth it to somehow pursue becoming more masculine as a male or more feminine as a female?

[Emerald]

14 minutes ago, Damir Elezi said:

Wow. Just Wow can you give me some sources so I can read up about this stuff? So as I understand, masculine energy, when it's an expression of yang, does not really have any substance So that's why men tend to "work towards" becoming a "real man" while women, expressing yin energy do that out of their inborn nature. Is that an explanation? 

Do you think it's worth it to somehow pursue becoming more masculine as a male or more feminine as a female?

No. That's not what I mean. Everyone has Yin and Yang in varying degrees as a natural state. So, the idea that men need to work at becoming a real man, is just a stumbling block to authenticity that society sets up. In the case of modern society, this stumbling block is completely unnecessary as our degree of social development has made it obsolete. In the days of old, the "becoming a man" rhetoric had some function as it was needed to adapt to the social structure. But in our social structure, it is completely unnecessary other than to prop up the self-esteem of men who have been conditioned to believe that they need to buy into that rhetoric to be valid human beings. But it is not necessary. Masculinity is natural to those with higher degrees of Yang energy. But we all  have both energies in varying degrees. The main thing is to release resistance to both Yin and Yang so that your authentic self can shine through. I have a couple videos that you might like.

 

 

[Gabriel Antonio]

14 hours ago, ajasatya said:

deep self hacking method

hahahaha! I loved that phrase!

 

[Actualized Disciple]

Those were interesting videos @Emerald, Im glad I watched those especially after already seeing Leo's similar video about Masculinity vs. Femininity. I like the diverse knowledge im getting here

[Spiral]

Most guys are insecure simple as that. They feel like real men are not so they want to become real men. As per femininity vs masculinity general you'll have confidenced guys have a both sides. Where as insecure guys try to hide their feminine side and as a result act like scared children. 

Like: Goes to club, can't dance so instead looks at the people dancing in a creepy way.

Now do I like dancing? No but it's even more boring to look at other people, not to mention you have an easy time meeting new people on the dance floor.

Edited October 7, 2017 by Spiral

[Steph1988]

@Emerald I wonder what you think about @Mad Max  his comment further to the top.

On 4-10-2017 at 0:55 PM, Emerald said:

the "becoming a man" rhetoric had some function as it was needed to adapt to the social structure. But in our social structure, it is completely unnecessary other than to prop up the self-esteem of men who have been conditioned to believe that they need to buy into that rhetoric to be valid human beings. But it is not necessary.

What if woman are unconsciously attracted to such men and have no control over it, and you really don't have control over that. that would mean it is still necessary you would simply leave us no choice but to compete in dominance hierarchies.

And what a dominance hierarchy is well it used to be the best hunter or the most powerful warrior. today we may have the luxury that the possibilities are nearly endless, maybe there is a dominance hierarchy for being the most spiritual guy as well who knows well that would be kinda cynical maybe there may just be such a competition going on here and the players don't even know it.

This is just a little thought i don't know this its just a feeling that this might be a possibility that it is all a hugely complicated incredibly elaborate mating ritual.

some things seem crystal clear to me those are that guy's need something in their life that they are really good at, they need some responsibility, they need challenges and that is what self esteem seems to be based on for me at least and that is what becoming a man seems to be about. And maybe for girls there is some overlap in that i'm male so i don't really know but i say it from a male perspective.

To me it looks like something that is (still) necessary, what do you think?

[Damir Elezi]

Very interesting responses, I am willing to study this topic a little deeper. @Emerald great videos, I didn't know you had a youtube channel, too! Can you give me some sources where you got this information? 

Are there any books or scientific studies about all that? I'd really like to read more about it.  
 

Edited October 8, 2017 by Damir Elezi

[Emerald]

On 10/8/2017 at 10:33 AM, Damir Elezi said:

Very interesting responses, I am willing to study this topic a little deeper. @Emerald great videos, I didn't know you had a youtube channel, too! Can you give me some sources where you got this information? 

Are there any books or scientific studies about all that? I'd really like to read more about it.  
 

It's a mix of things I've learned from Jungian Psychology, Taoism, Alchemy, esoteric information from various cultures, and modern outlooks on gender studies. All of this processed through the lens of my own experience as a human being and my personal experiences and struggles with authenticity as well as dealing with both feminine and masculine repression at various points in my life.

[Emerald]

On 10/7/2017 at 8:36 PM, Steph1988 said:

@Emerald I wonder what you think about @Mad Max  his comment further to the top.

What if woman are unconsciously attracted to such men and have no control over it, and you really don't have control over that. that would mean it is still necessary you would simply leave us no choice but to compete in dominance hierarchies.

And what a dominance hierarchy is well it used to be the best hunter or the most powerful warrior. today we may have the luxury that the possibilities are nearly endless, maybe there is a dominance hierarchy for being the most spiritual guy as well who knows well that would be kinda cynical maybe there may just be such a competition going on here and the players don't even know it.

This is just a little thought i don't know this its just a feeling that this might be a possibility that it is all a hugely complicated incredibly elaborate mating ritual.

some things seem crystal clear to me those are that guy's need something in their life that they are really good at, they need some responsibility, they need challenges and that is what self esteem seems to be based on for me at least and that is what becoming a man seems to be about. And maybe for girls there is some overlap in that i'm male so i don't really know but i say it from a male perspective.

To me it looks like something that is (still) necessary, what do you think?

There was a study done where they had women and men from different levels of wealth and different societies rate the attractiveness of the opposite sex. They found that societies where there was a high degree of scarcity, men with very masculine traits (small eyes, huge muscles, barreled chest) were seen as more attractive, and women with a greater body mass (especially the breasts) were seen as more attractive. But in first-world nations where there is not a lot of scarcity, men with more feminine traits (large eyes, lean builds) were found more attractive and women with less body mass were found more attractive. So, many women in first world nations aren't looking for hyper-masculine guys. I've never been into that and many of my female friends share similar tastes. So, hyper-masculinity becomes less valued in women's taste in men, the more developed a society is and the less scarce resources are. So, my advice in attracting women is to not attempt to be hyper-masculine. Just own whatever is actually there and make it great and be a stable kind of person.

Personally, I'm not attracted to the typical alpha male types. I never have been. Even in elementary and middle school, I never liked the popular boys. It was usually some shy kid or some weird kid who would draw pictures or liked dinosaurs something. The typical alpha type of guy is usually very outgoing and concerned with social competition, which I tend not to be intrigued by. My attractions usually happen toward men who are very reserved and have something interesting and mysterious about them. So, it's important to me that a man have a passion, strong work ethic, and a zone of competence in an area that generally interests me. We need to be compatible in that way, plus I just really like these things. I like to be with a guy who I feel like I can explore him deeply and learn new things from. I also like a man who can make me feel physically relaxed around because he has a calm and warmhearted demeanor. And I like a playful kind of guy who doesn't take himself too seriously.  Basically, a guy who can stimulate my mind but relax me in all other ways and make me feel comfortable with myself around him.

And his masculinity must be authentic and subtly woven into his personality. I call it "subtle unpretended masculinity." Masculinity is like perfume... if a man is trying to hard to be masculine, it's like putting on too much perfume. I've noticed a large number of men do this. I believe it is because they have a resistance to their feminine side, which is the connection to this part of a man's self that gives him clues as to what women actually find attractive in a man. For example, you'll find this in guys who want muscles that are ridiculously large or men who pretend towards extreme aggression. It's like the male version of the woman who gets breast implants the size of watermelons and thinks that it's attractive. But most women don't really find these things desirable in a man and some find these things quite repulsive. But there is a natural masculine essence that is authentic to most men, and when a man is really in touch with that part of himself and doesn't pretend, it's really magnetic.

However, that's not as to say that a lot of women don't like alpha male types. But there is still no need to shove yourself in the masculine box and become resistant to what's actually real and authentic to you. There is no need to break your back to be a man. You are already a man. Simply sharpen the tool that you already have, and you will attract a number of members of the opposite sex. You don't have to get into the weeds about social hierarchy and competition with other guys. It's not necessary anymore. We don't live in tribes or small farming villages. There are over 3.5 billion women on the planet. There's bound to be a large number of them who find you appealing. If you're not physically attractive (I didn't look at your picture... I'm just saying 'if'), you'll probably have slightly more trouble finding someone than a super handsome guy or an average looking guy. But if you're interesting and real, you will be magnetic. For example, I find Louis CK attractive and he's a not handsome. But I find him attractive because I really like his charisma and personality.

So, I think of this social competition between guys as an obsolete thing. Before it had the function of toughening up a guy for battle and killing large animals. Also for social belonging in the hierarchy of males which gave more choice in marriage and better treatment for your family within the social structure. But now this type of tribal mentality is just obsolete and pointless to engage in. It's best to simply create whatever you want to create with your life without regard to competing for some limited social status or resources. We live in a global society. These are tribal solutions applied to a global society. They just keep you small and pre-occupied with smallness. And if a guy can give that up, it will be a step forward.

Edited October 10, 2017 by Emerald

[Steph1988]

@Emerald Thx love your explanation, certainly a more positive outlook and honestly i hope i was wrong here because the world i described depresses me a bit i don't feel like competing all the time i want to lift people up but if i am completely honest i don't want most people doing way better then me either.

I won't drag anyone down because i am too aware for that and i want to live by principles but it would still hurt seeing people my age doing way better then me even if i am not doing that bad myself and of course it does not help but its still there, it is very subtle sometimes but it is there.

I really love to see my friends doing well but not doing better like 10 times as well.

I think this is the competition a lot of guys feel and maybe you can't relate at all (that would be interesting actually) 

Its really stupid i know, my day can be perfect and everything can go right but if for example i would be challenged to an arm wrestling match a by guy as big as me and i would lose that means depression for the rest of the day i kid you not.

This is me being as honest as possible self esteem is relatively good for me actually most of the time but never unconditional.

Can we ever lose this completely i have no idea i can only imagine how relaxed that would feel like.

I take your advice with me tho it sounds very logical to me maybe it is not as bad as i think .

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Steph1988 said:

@Emerald Thx love your explanation, certainly a more positive outlook and honestly i hope i was wrong here because the world i described depresses me a bit i don't feel like competing all the time i want to lift people up but if i am completely honest i don't want most people doing way better then me either.

I won't drag anyone down because i am too aware for that and i want to live by principles but it would still hurt seeing people my age doing way better then me even if i am not doing that bad myself and of course it does not help but its still there, it is very subtle sometimes but it is there.

I really love to see my friends doing well but not doing better like 10 times as well.

I think this is the competition a lot of guys feel and maybe you can't relate at all (that would be interesting actually) 

Its really stupid i know, my day can be perfect and everything can go right but if for example i would be challenged to an arm wrestling match a by guy as big as me and i would lose that means depression for the rest of the day i kid you not.

This is me being as honest as possible self esteem is relatively good for me actually most of the time but never unconditional.

Can we ever lose this completely i have no idea i can only imagine how relaxed that would feel like.

I take your advice with me tho it sounds very logical to me maybe it is not as bad as i think .

I have a hard time letting go of competition too. But I used to be much worse. I always had a baseline sense of inferiority. So, I was always trying to mold myself into the best or most 'something' to compensate for this perceived lack of worth. It wasn't necessarily directly to get better with guys. But sexuality played into it because I wanted to be seen as an interesting and appealing person. And I wanted guys that I liked to value those traits in me.  But I was never "person to person competitive" past age 13 or so. When I was 13 and before, I always wanted to be the smartest and the prettiest. When I realized that this was not possible due to the sheer circumstances of my genetics and that the focus was really narrow, I shifted to a different type of competition mindset that was still harmful (due to conditional love and growing a big ego) but not as painful and low self-esteem inducing as "person to person" competition.

I shifted that mindset to "How can I be the MOST interesting person?" And I treated myself like I was a work of art. So, I didn't need to be the prettiest, smartest, hardest working, most creative, etc. I just had to be a bunch of interesting things all together to create myself as a compelling and unique person. I'd imagine that a lot of charismatic people throughout history thought of themselves in this way and treated themselves as a self-creation. So, I had this really idiosyncratic and interesting persona that I had developed as a teenager. Nobody was like me. And it really added to my social status relative to the people that it resonated with. And it gave me a strong confidence boost because no one could beat me at this competition that was always running in the backdrop. Nobody could be more "me" than me. It was a really strong ego structure that was a source of inspiration and willpower. I was inspired to learn so many things back then because of this persona. I was always in the process of self creation.

But then I had two experiences of ego transcendence at age 20, and I realized that my ego structure that I valued so much was false and was the source of all my suffering. The work of art that I had been creating was just an atrocity that I had carved into my own skin. I was committing psychological acts of violence against myself and calling it "improvement" and "art." So, I had to find a way to stop. And my struggle since then has been not to fall back on my crutch of "having the best persona" but to still be able to function in life... which is much harder because competition was all I lived for before. My persona was all I had. Now, competitive drives come out in a more subtle way because it only has a few outlets. But they're still there.

So, if you want a weak and fragile ego, focus toward person to person competition. You can never be number one in the world at anything, so you will always fail. And even if you do manage to be number one, you'll have to constantly be on guard for a new-comer to knock you down a peg.

If you want a strong and robust ego, create yourself as a work of art. Nobody can compete with this.

If you want to be free of the ego, resolve not to compete when you become aware of competitive drives as it sets you apart from all others and fortifies the ego structure. The competitive spirit when taken seriously makes you an island.

[Hardkill]

Again, the system failed us to teach men to become men and women to become women. It's a sorry sight.