How Am I Not The Brain?

[MM1988]

One thing I never understood about enlightenment. Lets say you have an insight during meditation. You suddenly understand something profound. So like everything you "know" Its stored as a memory in your brain. What if someone were to put a needle into an exact point in your brain and erase that memory, erase that insight so to speak. What then? What if an enlightened Person suffers brain damage and turns into a vegetable, is he not enlightened anymore. The first one is a bit out there with at current level of neuroscience but the second one could happen. It seems like we need our brain to be enlightened, how are we not the brain then?  How does this work? Someone explain this to me please.

[Spiral]

@MM1988 Your personally is determined by your brain, that does not mean that you are the brain. If you are enlightened someone needs to "repair" the ego for you to be no longer be enlightened. Now that's some serious neuroscience .

[kuwaynej]

I think to get the answer/discussion you want, you should tell us what you mean when YOU say "enlightenment" and "enlightened person."

Think about this - your brain is an organ.

Do you consider yourself to be an organ? - When you take a closer look at the brain you will find that its made up of cells.

i believe what creates consciousness is the electrical and chemical process that takes place in the brain.

The processes Creates it; Awareness. 

The thing is we can replicate these processes using modern technology. Thus the raising in Artificial Intelligence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Wes Thoughts]

@MM1988 I struggle a lot with this question too. I have posted on here multiple times asking the same type of questions. 

I have come to believe, (believe is a key word here, I am not 100% sold on this yet either) that the brain is indeed very critical for our function in this physical world, but that is not all we really are. Consciousness itself is not created in the brain. I hope to come to realize this much deeper through meditation and self-inquiry. After all we could argue both points all day so the only way to settle it is to try to have a direct experince/realization of it yourself. That's what I am trying to do now.

Read my posts and the replies in here:

 

[Highest]

There is no evidence that you are the brain. Actually experience ego death and you shall see, there is no way YOU are the brain. Makes no sense whatsoever. 

[egoless]

6 minutes ago, Shiva said:

You are not the brain. The brain exists within you.

You are the computer. That what you think you are is a program running on that computer and is stuck in an endless loop.

You can get a direct experience of this yourself.

Enlightenment basically is getting out of that loop so that you realize that you're really the entire computer.

Hard to say what would happen. Possibly that would create a new "loop" which again blocks the person from seeing his true nature.

No, you need to shut up the brain to be enlightened. Your true nature is right here right now. You just don't see it because your brain is the loop that's in the way and prevents you from seeing it.

 

Still all these not answers his main question. How Enlightened person can loose his understanding of true nature if he realized that he is not brain after he receives the brain damage? What you are saying is that this understanding of Truth does not happen on brain level, it happens on higher level then how could brain damage interfere with that understanding?

Edited October 2, 2017 by egoless

[cetus]

@MM1988 If you became enlightened the first thing you would realize is just how much junk you've been carrying around cluttering up your brain. It wouldn't disappear. It would just get filed away in order of priority. Think of it like cleaning out a messy closet and putting it all back in a consciously -orderly fashion. What doesn't serve you today, and may have never really served you, would get put in the back of the closet where it will most likely sit and collect dust. Another good way to look at is like de-fragging a computer and removing unwanted viruses for optimum efficiency.

[cetus]

3 hours ago, MM1988 said:

What if an enlightened Person suffers brain damage and turns into a vegetable, is he not enlightened anymore.

@MM1988As long as conscious awareness remained (in the absence of all thought) that that would be enlightenment. What he once was as a brain/mind would cease to exist. They would be the embodiment of pure consciousness. 'He' would not know he is enlightened which would be the highest level of enlightenment. No witness remains, just the absolute.

 

[Saarah]

@MM1988 Memory is an interesting topic because I think this is responsible for a lot of our sense of self. We can merge a thought we've had in the 'past' with one now, with one into the future and it creates a coherent story of who you are. It gives this sense of consistency of yourself. 

If one was to become enlightened that would have transcended the memory level of perception, because you're not identified with that cohesive string of thoughts from 'me' in this location this time to that location and that time, so the englightenment itself wouldn't be dependent on a memory of it, it wouldn't be part of the story or the thought string, maybe then from that there's only the sense of moment by moment awareness, that's the way I see memory would become irrelevant. It's just a speculation but perhaps that helps somewhat. 

[TJ Reeves]

6 hours ago, MM1988 said:

So like everything you "know" Its stored as a memory in your brain. What if someone were to put a needle into an exact point in your brain and erase that memory, erase that insight so to speak. What then?

The brain isn't as simple as poking a needle into it to destroy memories. Scientists have been on a search for a one-to-one correlation between memories and brain cells and they have yet to find it. They found one instance of a cell that fired only when shown images of Jennifer Aniston and it made a huge splash in the literature. But that is not the only cell that responds to images of her, thus it still doesn't count as one-to-one functioning.

Indeed, it takes up to 50 to 60% of all brain cells to get damaged before someone even begins to notice the symptoms of something like alzheimer's. Imagine if your computer got 50% damaged before you noticed something was wrong! And yet, scientists everywhere continue to use this stupid 'brain-as-computer' analogy - there's no fucking computer that works this way!

Moreover, I even wrote a post where I demonstrated clear evidence of a man who's brain had 90% of his brain gone and yet he lived a normal, healthy life. 

It seems that the brain doesn't even come close to working like what you described. Instead, it seems to be holographic.

That is:

1 - every part contains functions, memories and aspects of every other part.

2 - It works by shining a light onto reality to recover a 3D image.

6 hours ago, MM1988 said:

It seems like we need our brain to be enlightened, how are we not the brain then? 

So stop thinking of yourself as this limited little consciousness produced by a mass of jelly in a calcified water-bag worth about $20 at the Ace-Hardware store for 99% of it and $160 for 100% of it. Scientists like Daniel Dennett love to rub themselves over this delusion, but it's simply not the case. 

Instead, realize that Capital-C consciousness is analogous to the combination of a holographic card, a laser light, and a holographic projection. 

Your brain, instead of creating consciousness, is better described as a way to anchor or tune into conscious percepts.

Another way to think of it is that a radio doesn't create radio waves and it doesn't create music, instead it taps into radio waves to play music from a specific frequency. 

You don't create consciousness and you don't create your perceived life, you tap into consciousness and play out your life at your own frequency. 

So how are you not your brain?

first off, you are the perceiver, the act of perceiving, and that which is perceived. Without any one of these nothing would exist and its basically incoherent to say otherwise.

The brain is only within the category of that which is perceived. At best, it is only 1/3 of the necessary components of existence.

So describing yourself as the brain leaves out other important aspects of you. Again, you are the whole of perceiver, perception, perceived. This is what is meant by transcending the limited view of yourself. 

Second off, you are confusing the brain's correlations to consciousness with creation of consciousness. Correlation is not causation!

So consider that the same way that if I destroy a radio, radio waves - and thus music - don't cease to exist ... then if I destroy a brain, consciousness and thus the music of consciousness don't necessarily cease to exist. And yet, a radio's functions correlate with music.

In this way, what the brain does is kind of filter and limit consciousness down to one small, distinct perspective. destroying the brain simply means going back to an unfiltered, unlimited consciousness that is completely non distinct perspective. It would be so non distinct that any description of it would simply not come close to describing it... and yet it would be the capital T Truth.

So you ask would a person be enlightened if they destroyed their brain? 

DUDE WAKE UP: ENLIGHTENMENT IS SPECIFICALLY WHEN YOU "DESTROY" YOUR BRAIN AND GO BACK TO UNLIMITED CONSCIOUSNESS. 

Edited October 2, 2017 by TJ Reeves

[Nahm]

@egoless Perhaps the most solid way to experience that you are not the brain is to be conscious without it's usage. 

[Max_V]

Brain damage doesn’t affect consciousness. It affects the content that appears in consciousness.

[Leo Gura]

@MM1988 What if "you", "the brain", and "reality" are just ideas floating in emptiness?

You think you are in reality, but reality is actually in you.

The problem is, you're trying to couch enlightenment into a naive realist paradigm which you've absorbed from your culture without ever realizing it. What enlightenment means is that your naive realist paradigm gets destroyed. Which literally means, at the moment of enlightenment, physical external reality ceases to exist! Imagine that!

See my videos:

• A Rant Against Naive Realism
• Understanding How Paradigms Work
• Understanding Absolute Infinity - Part 1

Not only will enlightenment remain after brain damage, enlightenment remains after you die, and it existed before you were born. It's the only thing which is Absolutely True, which means it's ever-present. It cannot be created or destroyed, because it's the absence of all dualities. It sits before the distinction of existence vs non-existence, or self vs reality.

[MM1988]

I get where are you are coming from, watched these videos a couple times actually. But its hard to wrap your mind around, you think you understood it somehow and then days pass and your mind comes up with questions like I posted again. I must admit I'm still a skeptic, but I'm reading all kinds of books and meditate because I feel there must be something to it since people like you or eckhart tolle seem very serious and sincere about it. Its just curiousity.

Speaking of curiousity, the positives of enlightment has on your life like raised awareness aside. Why from a personal point of view go through that struggle if you will get there when you die anyway? Is it just curiousity of the human brain? Most people go through life dont caring about the true nature of life, like who knows if heaven or hell exists or what happens after death, I'll get there anyway, why worry about it. But having to know now, while you are living this human life, and going to great lengths to find out like some of these monks, Isnt it just an extreme form of neuroticism? Not advocating for or against it, just throwing some thoughts out.

Edited October 3, 2017 by MM1988

[electroBeam]

@MM1988 enlightenment isn't the brain, it has barely anything to do with the brain.

Your entire premise is wrong, you think the brain exists. Where's your proof? Have you noticed that all empirical evidence is 'inside' the brain? I mean all evidence goes through your eyes or ears or whatever not. And it does that with everyone, biology scientists, neuroscientists. You're playing with fire assuming the brain exists. 

You're looking at this screen right now to read this are you not? Are you actually looking at a screen, or are you looking at a hallucination made by the brain. According to science, due to light transferring to the brain, you're not looking at a screen but a bunch of light put together. You're looking at electric impulses in the brain. 

We don't actually know scientifically if the world exists. We just know how brain impulses work, and patterns around that. And these brain patterns are inside this hallucination. Think about it. A concept is an impulse in the brain, so a concept about the concept about an impulse in the brain is also an impulse. Its circular and a strange loop. 

 

There is no brain, or if there is there's no way to access that information.

Enlightenment doesn't touch the brain, its awareness, its everything, matter, air, its all of it at once. And spiritual practices change awareness, not the brain. So if you remove a part of someones brain like a memory, that memory will be removed, experientially 1st perspective speaking, the content will be different, but the realization will still exist. If you want to remove the realization, you need to get some sort of awareness bomb and explode that. 

You wait. People are gonna begin to realize that consciousness isn't apart of the brain, but apart of everything. Its an underlying fabric beyond time and space that has the potential to change and become more aware of itself. While the brain (and all of matter) interacts with this fabric, one does not affect the other. 

[Lauritz]

34 minutes ago, MM1988 said:

Speaking of curiousity, the positives of enlightment has on your life like raised awareness aside. Why from a personal point of view go through that struggle if you will get there when you die anyway? Is it just curiousity of the human brain? Most people go through life dont caring about the true nature of life, like who knows if heaven or hell exists or what happens after death, I'll get there anyway, why worry about it. But having to know now, while you are living this human life, and going to great lengths to find out like some of these monks, Isnt it just an extreme form of neuroticism? Not advocating for or against it, just throwing some thoughts out.

This is exactly what has been going through my mind lately. 

Through increasing my awareness and my level of general mindfulness, I have already come to a place where I would consider myself to be deeply happy regardless of external circumstances (to a degree). Meaning, the only thing that actually bothers me is this enlightenment work   I think, do I have to realize this? (I think mushrooms already showed me Truth once and I got it) After all, wouldn't all those realizations bring me back to where I am now? Enjoying the illusion of my life?

I have read and heard so many theories and it just feels like way to much (distraction) for me right now.

Leo, maybe you can answer this? In your last allad-trip report video you mentioned you got to a point where you are satisfied with the answers and your level of understanding. How do you feel about that now? And what are the concrete benefits for your life?

I am reminded of your video "true versus fake growth" here. Wasn't that just an external fix for your internal questions? You satisfied the need for answers by answering them, but you did not drop the need to have answers in the first place. (I might just describe my own current situation here) 

[Leo Gura]

Quote

Speaking of curiousity, the positives of enlightment has on your life like raised awareness aside. Why from a personal point of view go through that struggle if you will get there when you die anyway?

You got something better to do?

[Wes Thoughts]

5 hours ago, electroBeam said:

You're looking at this screen right now to read this are you not? Are you actually looking at a screen, or are you looking at a hallucination made by the brain. According to science, due to light transferring to the brain, you're not looking at a screen but a bunch of light put together. You're looking at electric impulses in the brain. 

We don't actually know scientifically if the world exists. We just know how brain impulses work, and patterns around that. And these brain patterns are inside this hallucination. Think about it. A concept is an impulse in the brain, so a concept about the concept about an impulse in the brain is also an impulse. Its circular and a strange loop. 

This is deep man! Let this sink in. *mind blow*

[Nahm]

@Wes Thoughts it is scientifically known that matter does not exist. Though science doesn't seem to be convincing enough for folks. The scientist is a dream. I'm a dream. Folks are a dream. 

[Wes Thoughts]

@Nahm Are you referring to the fact that 96% of the universe is missing? They believe it is dark matter and dark energy that is yet to be discovered.