Should A Guy Pay For The First Date?

[SFRL]

Should a guy pay for the first date? Or should he and the girl split the check? Or should the girl pay for the first date? 

[Wouter]

I don't think that matters a lot.

But probably that doesn't help you.
 

 

[SFRL]

@Wouter why not? 

[Forestluv]

@SFRL For me it depends on the date. I trust my intuition. I'm fine with paying and try not make it some irrelevant event on the side. Yet some dates seem to have an independent, equality vibe to them and we split. Or sometimes, I pick up the tab and we casually say, next date it's her turn.

[Forestluv]

18 minutes ago, Mad Max said:

that's a very good thing to test a woman over. i always split the check on dates; i don't ask, i just do it. if the girl gets pissy or tries to bust my balls over it, that's an immediate red flag for me. "thanks, but i don't think it's gonna work out between us"; and then i get the fuck out o' there.

we're equal now, aren't we? women wanted to be providers, and i sure as hell wouldn't want to take that ability away from them, let alone the responsibilities that come with it. that would make me a terrible person.

so there you go. split.

For me, on a good date cost is irrelevant. It is a total non-issue. . . Like should we turn left or right along the hiking trail? It's a trivial factor when we are at a higher level of consciousness and connection. But I could make it a big issue about how she decided we turn left last time and I want to decide this time, because I'm not some type of wussy. We should end the hike with an equal number of direction decisions and she is ahead by two decisions. And one of my decisions shouldn't count as a real one, because one direction was an unmaintained path that we couldn't go down - so I'm actually down three decisions and I think there are only two more turns before the end, so I will end up down. I bet that bitch knew that early on and that's why she jumped out with three early turn decisions. . .

If it matters at all who pays or splits - that is a red flag to me. Having money be irrelevant is one of my top relationship criteria. Like as irrelevant as what brand of contacts we wear.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Serotoninluv

[Forestluv]

@Mad Max You missed my point. It matters that YOU care how the bill is paid. I am saying it is literally irrelevant for BOTH of us. Just as irrelevant as the brand of lightbulb in the barber shop across the street.

There is no "IF". There is no "Pissy". There is no "Fact". There is no "I want to". There is nothing, because it's irrelevant for both of us.

This is just a priority for me. How the bill is paid is important to other people. I get it. I used to care and stopped caring. The number one cause of stress in a relationship is money. Secondly, I started traveling around the world with dates and saw how money issues can interfere with the experience. I made a conscious decision that money will not be a factor in my relationships. AT ALL.  Experiences are far more important and that I don't want to give a fuck about who's paying and all the score keeping / power dynamics that goes with it.  And I want to be with someone who doesn't care. There is an incredible freedom that comes with that.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Serotoninluv

[Emerald]

6 hours ago, SFRL said:

Should a guy pay for the first date? Or should he and the girl split the check? Or should the girl pay for the first date? 

I will always offer to split the bill because that's just common courtesy. It speaks to a woman's character if she doesn't offer to pay. But if a man invites me out on a date with him and doesn't insist to pay for the bill, even after I've offered, then it does register as a little red flag that I watch out for. First off, because he invited me out. If you invite someone out, then you should offer to pay. It's a bit rude to invite someone to something at their own expense. But that unawareness I could let go of.

But below are the deal-breakers that COULD relate back to him being unwilling to pay for the date that he invited me on. So, this decision to split the bill will put me on high alert for these things... and will give me uneasy feelings about the future of the budding relationship.

1. He's really resistant to any and all traditional gender roles to the point where he's willing to sacrifice romantic polarity and having a good time.

2. He's petty and stingy with his money and lacks generosity of spirit. He's afraid of the woman getting one over on him so he pays really close attention to not paying for anything beyond his portion of the date.

3. He's unemployed or has money problems.

4. He's socially unaware and doesn't know that it's still an expectation that he pays on the first date. (This is true in America, at least)

5. He's not willing to go through the effort to court me and is more concerned about money. (Note: I put a lot of time and effort into courting a man that I'm interested in. So, this is an incongruence of effort and values.)

All these things have very little to do with the money, itself. It has much more to do with the man's level of maturity relative to dating and finances. And if the above concerns don't show themselves in his personality, then the concern about him not paying goes away. I don't care about the money. I care about having a good time on the date and the person being a mature potential partner that doesn't get hung up on small things.

So, I would never say that a man SHOULD pay on the first date. Do whatever feels right. Equality is important to a functioning society. But it's just kind of a turn off. The traditional mating dance works really well for me. So, if a man isn't willing to step into the traditional masculine role for even one date, then it's just kind of a buzzkill. It's an anti-aphrodisiac.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Emerald

[Spiral]

Guys don't go to a restaurant on the first date,she is likely to say no even if she likes you, grab a cup of coffee at a local cafe or something . If you have a spend a dollar or two who cares? I think you can afford that.

Here is a trick, the more you give the girl the possibility to easily leave, the more likely she is to hang out with you. So even if you don't think about it and by accident block her exit she is more to want to leave. Or if it's awkward to leave early as you mind find it in a restaurant.

@Emerald What if I have every intention to pay, take out my card and is about to pay and then you offer to spit the bill? Should i take you up on your offer? To some degree i also feel like if you want to help out, you deserve a chance.

i'll explain further if a girl asks me out(that happens in Sweden) and insists paying even thought i offer to spit the bill, I will feel like I owe her something. If  I want to go on a second date with her then fine ill just pay that one and it's all fair and square. But if i don't i would feel strange "rewarding" her with sex as that is probably not her goal.

Some girls even get absent if I offer to pay, I find that anti-aphrodisiac. aka certain feminists. 

Edited September 30, 2017 by Spiral

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Spiral said:

 

@Emerald What if I have every intention to pay, take out my card and is about to pay and then you offer to spit the bill? Should i take you up on your offer? To some degree i also feel like if you want to help out, you deserve a chance.

i'll explain further if a girl asks me out(that happens in Sweden) and insists pay even thought i offer to spit the bill, I will feel like I owe her something. If  I want to go on a second date with her then fine ill just pay that one and it's all fair and square. But if i don't i would feel strange "rewarding" her with sex as that is probably not her goal.

Some girls even get absent if I offer to pay, I find that anti-aphrodisiac. aka certain feminists. 

One thing that I only alluded to briefly in my post is that this is from an American perspective. I understand that customs are different in different countries. If I were in that position where I wasn't sure what to do, I would tell her "Hey. I'll pay for this one. You can get the next one." And if she still insists on splitting the bill, then you agree to split. The main thing is to not treat it as a huge deal.

[merimo28]

I like to pay the bill, and I am not for spliting...

[Ricky Walt]

It's weird though because some of my most successful dates and relationships have come from first dates where the girl insisted on paying the whole bill? But my current (and longest relationship) is with a girl that tries to keep things equal between us financially. It's nice, I appreciate it.

[Canadian]

If you ask her out, yes. 

if she asks you out , you shouldn't even bother buying anything, just wait what she does...

[Ricky Walt]

I don't think I agree with that, simply because it is expected of guys to approach women. No approach = no date. It is rare that a woman approaches a man. So by default a man must pay because he will most likely be the one approaching?

[pluto]

Nah that's just society's expectations/conditioning of what should happen. It lacks Authenticity and Originality.

I believe both should pay half or take turns ect..

[eskwire]

On 9/29/2017 at 10:57 AM, SFRL said:

Should a guy pay for the first date? Or should he and the girl split the check? Or should the girl pay for the first date? 

I agree with what @Emerald said. I will add that you should pay for the first date only if that is who you will be on a regular basis in the future. Sometimes splitting, sometimes she pays, but you are able and happy to pay more than just once.

Some dirtbag guys pay for everything, even insist on it, for a couple of dates as a trick. They get to play a gender role and convince the female they aren't broke or the type of man who actually desires to be "kept" by a female.

Until the truth reveals itself very soon thereafter. Point is, don't pay if that's not who you are. I don't care to be tricked. 

[SFRL]

@eskwire yeah well women always love to say they got 'tricked' by a guy. 

But you got to see it from the guys perspective as well: "You got to test drive it before you buy it". 

When you test drive it and you don't like it, you are not going to get it. Thing is you can't know that upfront. You got to make that test drive. 

Edited October 22, 2017 by SFRL

[eskwire]

@SFRL I don't really understand what you are saying. 

Paying for the date is test driving or not paying for the date is test driving?

Or is paying for the date so you can have sex the test drive? 

I can also give you a list of women who have tricked me, just not in a conversation about dating because I haven't gone on dates with women. 

[SFRL]

@eskwire don't read too much into the first dates. There is no relationship until there has been sex. 

I have heard women say: "I am am not going to have sex with him unless he is my boyfriend". 

A guy will think: " She is not my girlfriend unless I have had sex with her". 

I sure do. 

What happens before that is just a mating ritual. It doesn't necesairly reflect the potential relationship. 

The other thing is a relationship is not a static environment. You can't assume because this is how things are, that is how they will be in the future. Relationships develop and change their shape. Just because a person has been paying doesn't mean they will or should in the future or vice versa. 

 

Edited October 22, 2017 by SFRL

[eskwire]

@SFRL That's fine and I agree that relationship dynamics change. I personally don't have rules about when I have sex with someone. 

I also don't personally have sex with someone just because he paid. I've slept with people who were completely broke and up front about that. I've also slept with people who paid at first and acted like chivalry was super important and blah blah blah only to find out that was all hot air - a lie. Nobody enjoys being lied to. 

For me, it's a matter of authentic relating. I thought you were trying to progress into Stage Green?

Of course, I am not a desirable female in the mating world so my "authentic relating" take on it is probably useless to you and your beliefs/methods.

It seems like you believe:

Early dates should lead to sex for that test drive. / Paying for the date will lead to sex. 

So are you just asking people if paying for the date is necessary for sex or ? What knowledge are you seeking? Did any of these responses give it to you? 

[SFRL]

@eskwire yeah authentic relating....

The way I see it is like this: What is more authentic then admitting to yourself that as a human being you are just a baboon. 

Really we are just monkeys. So what we like, our motives, we are just like a monkey. Thats our true nature. So you realize that and act in line with your monkey drives then you are being authentic. Instead of sugar coating it with all sorts of our highly developed human frontal cortex brain. Deep down we are just a monkey. 

Once you accept that, then maybe you can begin to transcend that, is my suspicion. 

 

For what I believe: 

I don't believe: "Early dates should lead to sex for that test drive"

I believe: "The first date does mean sex ?"

 

I just started this thread because the dating section seemed dead. And too many whiny threads wallowing in self-pity. Also some sketchy threads started to pop up promoting mail order brides. So I was like, it's about time we start to have some talk about dating and how to get girls again.