I Want To Be A Chimp :)

[abrakamowse]

8 minutes ago, ayokolomo said:

It sounds amazing, but are you really truly bursting with such a desire that you would be willing to die?  I do not have such a gift, perhaps you do 

Lets see.  As you read this take your hand and cover your nose so that you cannot breathe.  Now close your mouth, after several minutes without breathing answer this question.  To inhale and save your life or die so that you can become enlightend. 

This is the level of commitment that one must have, and no everytime I try, even if I wanted to my body naturally inhales. 

The "life" that Jesus is talking about is the Ego, not killing your actual body. Once you kill the ego you will find Jesus. He is one with the father, so you will reach Jesus Consciousness  (he is the way) and you will know who you really are.

 

If you want to save your life (he's talking about your ego, your fake life) you will lose it (you will lose your true life, that's your higher self).

[Galyna]

15 hours ago, TruthSeeker said:

After thinking about the whole enlightenment thing for a while I've come to the conclusion that it's not for me. It seems interesting. I just don't see the point. I'm a great person. I'm not experiencing suffering. I'm developing. I'm working on my career. I dont see the point of getting in touch with the nothingness. If nothing has meaning and The real me doesn't exist and I'm fooling my self right now with my thoughts thinking that I'm who I am so I think I just want to live with fooling myself. Meaning as long as I know in the back of my mind that its not true so I might as well enjoy life and forget about trying to "experience" the "no-self". If life is meaningless and empty so why not just ride this horse of a body till I die at a hopefully very old age? For get about meditating and forget about trying to realize I don't exist..I'de rather live with the illusion of self at least for while Im here. It seems dumb to try to connect with the fact that I dont exist...seems like Im loosing valuable illusion time. If its true that when I die I will be that same nothingness that I am now without the illusion of the body...I might as well live out this illusion to the fullest and then be this nothingness when I die. Why should I try to be enlightened now? For the feeling...well it cant be for the feeling because its not a feeling according to what people are saying...its just plain conscientiousness...not my conscientiousness..just conscientiousness...but whats the point in that...Leo will say..."point? points are made up and don't exist...your ego is trying find a point" or something like that. I think I'de rather be a chimp. The illusion seems better than enlightenment. The enlightenment seems like darkness.

Sound like a plan? Who's with me?

 

 

I had the same question before. 

You sound very reasonable, but....you still do not get one main point: "It is not up to you to decide whether to live like a chimp or Buddha"

What is the point to convince you or argue about it? It is not up to you. So relax, and live your normal life.  

Take life as it is, if it happened that you want to go further, it would happen, if not, no point to worry. 

"Everything just happens." 

But remember, thinking that you in control will make you suffer!

[step1]

27 minutes ago, ayokolomo said:

Allow yourself to put yourself through a painful ride.

It isn't up to me.  No free will

[ayokolomo]

19 minutes ago, step1 said:

It isn't up to me.  No free will

 

Good luck with that.

 

@abrakamowse

What I refering to is the level of commitment needed to kill the ego.  This is no easy task and the intensity needed is imnense. There needs to be an ability to push pass even the physical desire to survive.  Not only mentally, having a strong thought, but to have such a burning desire that even though you have to breathe the body will not.  Such mastery over the body that even the survival instinct has been overcome.

 Of course you dont have to die,  but you have to have ego death as so important that you are willing to die.  Although as far as I understand coming back to the physical world as an enligtend is significantly harder than becoming enlightend in the first place.

Is becoming enlightend that intense within you?

[abrakamowse]

@ayokolomo  Why do you think it has to be "intense"?

 

I did some intense stuff that took me even to a mental hospital to understand a lot of stuff that now I understand, like no free will, that the mind is dangerous thing to play with, etc. Right now I don't know the next step but I am willing to do whatever for it. It's about saving my real "self". I don't mind about my ego.

I realized that we are not our thoughts and we are not our egos when I was 6, the only problem is I didn't know what to do with that until now.

Edited February 22, 2016 by abrakamowse

[step1]

10 minutes ago, ayokolomo said:

 

Good luck with that.

 

 

 

Not sure whether you are being sarcastic or not...

 

I think anyone who has an ego that serves them well will never understand a person who has an ego that does not serve them well.  A lot of people who go down the road of enlightenment did not choose to do so, it was their only option.  Lisa Cairns is one of them.

 

I've read a lot of self help and although its has helped it has no way near had as much impact that meditation and self enquiry has had on me.  Although I was initially freaked out after I became 'aware', the aftermath of this is actually peace and relief; there has been a huge weight lifted from my shoulders and I feel like I no longer need to live up to anyone's expectations and don't take myself so seriously anymore. 

[abrakamowse]

It's all about being quiet (with our minds). Enlightenment can come effortless.

"Be still, and know that I am God"

Psalm 46:10

[Guest]

Shinzen Young said that apparently enlightened people (most of them) would rather live on enlightened day than an unenlightened lifetime.  That sounds like quite the incentive to me, but I am not saying your course in not valid.

[WelcometoReality]

16 hours ago, TruthSeeker said:

 

For the people who think they know what enlightenment is and are trying to achieve it...why are you doing it?

 

 

Because it's the truth.

[Guczo]

Personally, I think you are confused about this Enlightenment.

In fact, we are all incarnated in body and we all gonna die, so this is not matter of choice. You are a chimp, whether you want it or not :). 

17 hours ago, TruthSeeker said:

After thinking about the whole enlightenment thing for a while I've come to the conclusion that it's not for me. It seems interesting. I just don't see the point. I'm a great person. I'm not experiencing suffering. I'm developing. I'm working on my career. I dont see the point of getting in touch with the nothingness.

 

 

So you can forget all concepts about Enlightenment, Power of Now, "getting in touch with the nothingness" and the like. Spiritual awakening absolutely doesn't exclude  working, achieving goals or just enjoying your daily life experiences. It has nothing to do with giving up your personal life to become a "spiritual person" whoever it may be.

You can include for beginning Mindfulness practice in your life to become self-aware chimp and take very practical benefits of it, without making any exaggerated metaphysical/existential claims on nature of cosmos or life&death. 

"The quality of mind cultivated in vipassana is almost always referred to as “mindfulness,”
and the literature on its psychological benefits is now substantial. There is nothing spooky about
mindfulness. It is simply a state of clear, nonjudgmental, and undistracted attention to the
contents of consciousness, whether pleasant or unpleasant. Cultivating this quality of mind has
been shown to reduce pain, anxiety, and depression; improve cognitive function; and even
produce changes in gray matter density in regions of the brain related to learning and memory,
emotional regulation, and self-awareness."

[Moonflower]

I think you're making a very big mistake, I don't think you realize what the benefits for enlightenment are like. The illusion is hell, it's just suffering and worming your way in and out of comfort. It might feel like you're happy now but you haven't seen what real happiness is. 

[abrakamowse]

1 Corinthians 13:12

"For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known."

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Pierre said:

You're wiser than you think. Many people get into spirituality as a mean of escape. They're afraid to live, and so they'll never get anywhere.

Go ahead, you'll come to it later. Or not. No Problemo.

I pity the fools who go down this path and there are a lot of them. They never live and they never get enlightened. A life I would never wanna live, I'd rather stay a Chimp forever. 

[Leo Gura]

Enjoy your chimpdom.

[David1]

İ guess enlightenment can be seen as a spoiler. İmagine you were omnipotent...that would get boring really fast. Not being in the 'know', now that's when things get interresting

 

 

 

[kkk]

Eckhart in one of his videos already mentoned that you cant force this shit on people. Only those who are ready will come

No need to make commercials about enlightenment  

[electroBeam]

15 hours ago, Truth said:

talking and being convinced by others doesn't make you become enlightened. That's why sometimes I feel this forum is completely counter productive to enlightenment, anything anyone tells you is a complete fiction. The only thing anyone is really doing when they tell you something about enlightenment is pointing you to this "blind spot" that's all anyone is doing. Don't get advice and rationalize it away on the forum so it makes sense or it doesn't make sense, people can explain away anything you think and conceptualize and they will, why? because it's exactly what we are trying not to do, people have their own agendas and trying to convince themselves of things. Take what people, Leo and others and just use it in your practice and filter out what works and what doesn't (assuming you meditate everyday.) Everyone's at different stages in their development. This is a lone wolf journey.

 

"talking and being convinced by others doesn't make you become enlightened." yes it does... if someone convinces you that enlightenment is good, you will be motivated to meditate and be enlightened.

"The only thing anyone is really doing when they tell you something about enlightenment is pointing you to this "blind spot" that's all anyone is doing" 

if the fiction has an effect on you that motivates you, then the fiction is a good thing. If no one gives you that fiction A you will make up a fiction that doesn't motivate you B you will not make up a fiction and again not be motivated.

"people can explain away anything you think and conceptualize and they will, why? because it's exactly what we are trying not to do, people have their own agendas and trying to convince themselves of things." Who here is trying to convince themselves of things about their enlightenment experience? They are simply explaining their experience. What is wrong with having an agenda, apart from because it feels bad, or feels wrong? Two completely subjective social constructions? Prove having an agenda is always a "bad thing". you also have an agenda on here, by posting this reply in the first place. You want the OP to be convinced of your opinions, just like everyone else on here.

 

People in this world are not going to become enlightened simply through their own accord. Free will doesn't exist, if they are not exposed to this stuff, if they are not convinced by people, their egos' are not going to allow them to become enlightened. They simply will not have the will and determination to achieve this journey. Emotional support through means such as this forum is a necessity for 90% of people. Saying that this is a lone wolf act, and that this forum is "counter productive" is simply counter productive itself.   

 

Edited February 22, 2016 by electroBeam

[step1]

I almost feel like there are people in this section of the forum who are trying to pull others away from this path.  Is this genuine concern for others or work of the ego? 

[electroBeam]

@kkk People wont convince themselves either. Free will doesn't exist, you need someone to convince you, to 'trigger' you as Leo says. Buddhist monks don't become enlightened on their own, they become enlightened because the environment around them encourages them to, the people around them are enlightened, the people around them encourage them to meditate. You are not some spirit, the self(not Self) is a product of its environment. Your reply is implying free will, and a unique spirit.

[Ajax]

@TruthSeeker  The reason I wish to be enlightened is so that I can see activity as a game and I can play it freely without getting trapped within. I don't imagine chimps can accomplish this for they are trapped by impulse. However, life is really a game and one should play it as they see fit.