Understanding Spiritual Masters And A Question

[Deep]

Liberation is the permanent dissolution of the ego. Atman doesn't mean soul, even though it's translated as that. It means you are different from what you think you are. When referring to an individual we use the term atman. When referring to everything and everyone we use the term Brahman. A liberated person is God awakened. An egoic person is God dreaming. Both are God, but one hasn't realized their true nature yet. 

In Hinduism, it is believed that certain individuals are born liberated and remain that way throughout their life. They are Lord Rama, Krishna, and Kalki (future). They are Param Atman, which means fully liberated. They don't have to do anything special to become liberated. All other incarnations have Jiva atman. Which means they have more ego and need to succeed in meditation to become liberated. This is written by an enlightened sage named Parashara. 

It's a possibility that this is true. It could also be a concept. I'm open to both possibilities. My opinion is that everyone with a body and mind has to succeed in meditation or spiritual yoga. I don't think anyone is randomly liberated. For example, Rama and Krishna probably became liberated at a young age just like Ramana Maharshi and Ramakrishna. Then they decided to live their life however they wanted because once the ego was gone they're no longer affected by worldly activities. They could go to war, they could have sex, and do other things while experiencing the Infinite. If an egoic person has sex they remain trapped in the dream state. 

Some behaviors such as truthfulness, non-violence, celibacy, and others, produce ego death faster. These are outlined in the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, but it's not the only method to liberation. I don't recommend anyone should suppress their desires. Otherwise they would go crazy. Sri Ramakrishna became liberated through many ways including Christianity and Islam. Here is a quote from The Gospel of Ramakrishna (highly recommended): 

The love of Rādhā is the precursor of the resplendent vision of Sri Krishna, and Sri Ramakrishna soon experienced that vision. The enchanting form of Krishna appeared to him and merged in his person. He became Krishna; he totally forgot his own individuality and the world; he saw Krishna in himself and in the universe. Thus he attained to the fulfilment of the worship of the Personal God.

Swami Nikhilananda. Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna (Kindle Locations 1092-1095). Ramakrishna-Vivekananda Center of New York, Inc.. Kindle Edition.

In the above quote, he practiced Bhakti Yoga. He wasn't attached to a concept of God, but he had intense love for God itself. Most people love other things besides God. Here is another quote: 

“How silly! This jug is God! This cup is God! Whatever we see is God! And we too are God! Nothing could be more absurd.” Sri Ramakrishna came out of his room and gently touched him. Spellbound, he immediately perceived that everything in the world was indeed God. A new universe opened around him. Returning home in a dazed state, he found there too that the food, the plate, the eater himself, the people around him, were all God.

Swami Nikhilananda. Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna (Kindle Locations 1884-1887). Ramakrishna-Vivekananda Center of New York, Inc.. Kindle Edition.

A spiritual master can give you these experiences, if you're a genuine seeker. Swami Vivekananda was an atheist before meeting Ramakrishna. 

Do you think ancient cultures had higher consciousness than we do? Do you think science and history lied about them? 

[Pure Imagination]

Very interesting points! I think it could be possible to be enlightened from a very young age. If said individual is lucky enough. Unfortunately 99.999999+ percent of people don't have this luxury and must work towards enlightenment through traditional means.

I also completely agree with what you said about suppressing desires. Everyone should work towards becoming aware of their desires to "work past" them. Suppressing them just creates more resistance which usually ends up amplifying unwanted desires.

7 hours ago, Deep said:

Do you think ancient cultures had higher consciousness than we do? Do you think science and history lied about them? 

To answer this, yes I do believe ancient cultures had higher consciousness. They were not surrounded by constant distractions which made focusing on introspection much easier. Plus meditation and enlightenment work if anything were slightly more mainstream than today (at least in the western world). Ancient wisdom has  withstood the test of time for thousands of years, and I don't think present day humans fully comprehend how significant that is. I think science and history lack the understanding of what these ancient teachings were talking about. You can't look at pre-rational human understanding through the lense of rationality and expect to understand.

[Deep]

9 hours ago, Pure Imagination said:

Very interesting points! 

I also completely agree with what you said about suppressing desires. Everyone should work towards becoming aware of their desires to "work past" them. Suppressing them just creates more resistance which usually ends up amplifying unwanted desires, 

Thanks! Yes, you can become enlightened even if you have sex and participate in worldly activities. The only thing required for enlightenment is genuine love for God. 

[cetus]

11 hours ago, Pure Imagination said:

I think it could be possible to be enlightened from a very young age. If said individual is lucky enough

@Pure Imagination It's not luck. We where all much closer to enlightenment when we were very young. As we got older, most of us got farther away from the truth of what is. If you recede backwards through 'your' life it will become quite apparent that something special has been obscured by the egoic self identity that has evolved over time through experience. Go back in the direction you came. Dwell in the original 'I am' at the core of what is you. We all had it at one point. It is the gateway to transcendence.

I hear so many people saying they are hoping for enlightenment to happen at some time in the future. I say no - Go back instead. Go back so far that you literally exit the door you came in through.

[Prabhaker]

On 9/26/2017 at 0:56 AM, Deep said:

Do you think ancient cultures had higher consciousness than we do?

Every twenty-five centuries there comes a peak. Every 2500 years a great master incarnates to update the eternal teachings.The master changes the teachings to fit the evolving man’s mind.

[Deep]

@Pure Imagination The only reason consciousness is low right now, is because our society values money more than anything. For example, they put unnecessary preservatives in food instead of keeping it organic. Humans have survived for thousands of years on organic food. 

@cetus56 I think it's even better as an adult because we retain our maturity. We experience the world much more intensely while retaining our adult faculties. 

[cetus]

1 hour ago, Deep said:

We experience the world much more intensely while retaining our adult faculties. 

And that would be what? The adult mind with all it's associations to past experiences superimposed over the experience of now;

[Deep]

17 hours ago, cetus56 said:

And that would be what? The adult mind with all it's associations to past experiences superimposed over the experience of now;

It depends on how you define enlightenment. In my OP, I said Ramakrishna touched Narendra and he was able to perceive the world as God. Most children don't perceive the world in that manner, even without an ego. Maybe babies do but they aren't able to remember it. Martin Ball, Leo, and many others also say it is God. Is there mind projecting a label onto reality? No, I think there is a significant difference between waking up and the dream.

I don't think enlightenment is about removing all the associations from the mind. I mean you don't have to waste energy on that. It's simply about holding the mind still during meditation and experiencing Absolute Infinity. The ego automatically goes away at that time because it's just a part of the mind. If a person does that for 10 mins. their life would be changed forever. Even if the ego comes back they would know what reality is. 

The only problem is most people don't want it bad enough. We have an infinite amount of chances so there's no rush. lol