How Can You Know If There Are Other Perspectives?

[Danda]

This thing was in my mind for quite a while. I tried to put it in some understandable way, so I hope you guys will get what I mean.

There is this one perspective "I" am experiencing and that is all what is happeing. I mean, you cannot experience the perspective of another person, or animal, or wahtever else. So you cannot even know if others have a perspective. Others can be like robots, without a consciousness, without a perspective and you will never have the chance to know. You don't know if I have a perspective (consciousness) while writing this post, and I don't know if you have one while replaying on this post. How could you know that you are everyone, therefore experiencing everything thru other perspetives? Others are just concepts, just bundaries, just sounds and colors in your visual field.

I haven't experienced enlightenment yet, so maybe I'm just deluded on my way there. Therefore this question may sound silly for you. And it will sound silly for me in future too. Anyway i had this feeling to share it.

Thanks everyone.

[Nahm]

@Danda I hear you. First, right foundation of body & mind, second, high enough dose of psylicibin. 

To see you are everything, see there is no you. 

To see everything is your illusion, don't believe. 

To see that you are love, be honesty and love. 

 

Things that are true for your body and the real You, or The One:

You have no experience being born, and no experience dying.

You did not begin, and you have not ended.

You are conscious.

You are One, you have never been two.

If you look close enough, there is no thing there. 

 

Your thinking transcends your vision.

Your awareness transcends your thinking.

Your being transcends your awareness.

One does not transcend any thing. 

 

[Joseph Maynor]

All there is is Being the Truth.  Other entities are just thought-stories.  You are watching a dream.  The only part of the dream that's real is the non-symbolic awareness in the moment.

[Emerald]

You can't know. Even if you become enlightened, you will never know. It is part of the mystery of existence. The only thing to do is to accept the fact that you will never know for sure how real or unreal anything actually is. But knowing is not beneficial anyway. What's beneficial is surrendering to the mystery of existence.

For this, I like the metaphor of The Diamond Net of Indra, for which I named my channel. In the parable, it states that all of reality is a net of infinite dimension that the god Indra has hung in the sky. Because the net is infinite, it stretches out in every direction. And at each of the vertices of the net, lies a jewel. So, the jewels that sit upon the infinite net are also infinite in number. And in each jewel is a reflection of all the other jewels. So, there is an infinite amount of jewels reflected in each jewel. So, there is only one jewel from that perspective which contains all other jewels. But there is also an infinite net of separate jewels, from a different perspective. Both seem to contradict one another, but both may be true and both may be false. But we can never know. We are the one jewel that reflects all other jewels. But we are also just one jewel among the infinite amount of jewels on the net. This is the paradox of being.

So, to put it a different way, I think it's important not to fall into the trap of solipsism where we assume there are no others and that our perspective is the only actual perspective. And it's just as important not to fall into the trap of naive realism, where we take for granted that reality is some separate realm that exists outside of us. The only really true answer is "I don't know." And there's a lot of power in "I don't know." because it allows you to be receptive to love and wisdom. So, let go of all beliefs, and simply be.

[Nahm]

@Joseph Maynor what would be the purpose?

[Nahm]

@Emerald with all the respect in the world, you most definitly can experience this. 

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

@Emerald with all the respect in the world, you most definitly can experience this. 

Can you elaborate? I'm not sure what you mean.

[Nahm]

 A person can experience complete one perspective through other people directly

 

and from other people

im using the term other people for explanation sake

Edited September 24, 2017 by Nahm

[dorg]

Quote

How Can You Know If There Are Other Perspectives?

There is not even one perspective - other than in thought/imagination - let alone many.

 

Positing a 'you' is (mentally) positioning consciousness in some location, and thus limiting consciousness to a perspective, a thought created position.

 

[ajasatya]

@Danda there's no entity/individuality/atman experiencing this perspective right now. the word "I" doesn't point to a separated phenomena of the universe. when we say "I" we're actually referring to the very same thing, which is the entire universe itself. we're just unconscious of it most of the time unless we practice a lot.

your confusion comes from believing that there's a separated thing experiencing the external world, when in fact there's just the universe experiencing itself through many eyes, ears, skins, sea waves, star explosions and singularities.

imagine that your kidney became so complex that it started to think. he'd probably go like "i hate that big pulsing bomb of meat, delivering a lot of impurities for me to filter all the time". or it could go the other way around and be grateful for being alive. but Truth doesn't take those thoughts in consideration because the liver and the heart are part of the same body. and the planet earth is a bigger body. and the universe is the ultimate body. and they're all completely mystical.

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

 A person can experience complete one perspective through other people directly

and from other people

im using the term other people for explanation sake

I'm still not 100% sure what you mean. Do you mean that a person can experience other people's perspectives directly through Samadhi or something like that?

[ajasatya]

3 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I'm still not 100% sure what you mean. Do you mean that a person can experience other people's perspectives directly through Samadhi or something like that?

i've had some crazy experiences with ayahuasca in which i could see/feel the details of the life of other people. i could see the mistakes they make, unhealthy details about their intimate lives. i could feel in "my" body the suffering that "they" experience in "their" bodies.

it gets really crazy. it's truly mysterious. we think we know but we're completely clueless. CLUELESS.

[Joseph Maynor]

Everything non-symbolic about other people is something perceived in Being, and therefore part of God, part of you.  Symbols exist, but how they comment on or represent what is True is illusory.  Truth = Being.  So, the phenomenological aspects of anything sensed in Being is you, is God.  No-thing properly exists.  Saying things exist is just a mental symbol being clung to as Truth.  You are watching a movie play itself out, and the key error is identifying with aspects of it as anything other than Being.  That's all mind stuff.  The mind is a tricky bastard.  The phenomenological aspects of everything is you.  Even thoughts are you, they just need to keep their opinions to themselves. Thoughts are very vocal about Truth.  

Edited September 24, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Nahm]

@Emerald You can experience yourself as others but in the experience, it is very clear there is no other. 

[Amit]

@Danda their is no other perspective, its only your perception in the end. You are everything there are. You draw boundaries and close yourself in a box whatever size. Do it or not do it. It's you. In experience, being is the most profound state I can have. The God lives in being itself.

[egoless]

8 hours ago, ajasatya said:

@Danda there's no entity/individuality/atman experiencing this perspective right now. the word "I" doesn't point to a separated phenomena of the universe. when we say "I" we're actually referring to the very same thing, which is the entire universe itself. we're just unconscious of it most of the time unless we practice a lot.

your confusion comes from believing that there's a separated thing experiencing the external world, when in fact there's just the universe experiencing itself through many eyes, ears, skins, sea waves, star explosions and singularities.

imagine that your kidney became so complex that it started to think. he'd probably go like "i hate that big pulsing bomb of meat, delivering a lot of impurities for me to filter all the time". or it could go the other way around and be grateful for being alive. but Truth doesn't take those thoughts in consideration because the liver and the heart are part of the same body. and the planet earth is a bigger body. and the universe is the ultimate body. and they're all completely mystical.

But how do you know even if you're Enlightened that the whole universe exists and not only what "you" are seeing in front of you right now? 

[Amit]

7 minutes ago, egoless said:

But how do you know even if you're Enlightened that the whole universe exists and not only what "you" are seeing in front of you right now? 

@egoless the day you will realize it, you will be enlightened.

[AleksM]

@Danda  You are a perspective. I am a perspective. Your perspective is based on your perception.

A few questions to ponder:

1. What is perspective?
2. What shapes the perspective?
3. What are the components that form a perspective?
4. What perpetuates the perspective?
5. What expands the perspective?
6. What maintains the perspective?
7. What contracts the perspective?
8. What if perspective is a holographic projection?
9. What changes the perspective?
10. What does not change the perspective?
11. Is perspective subjective?
12. Which perspective is truer than other perspectives?
13. How can you be sure about that?
14. Which perspectives are more easily integrated and why?
15. Which perspectives are harder to integrate?
16. Is it possible to dissolve a perspective?
17. What dissolves the perspective?
18. What is perception?
19. How does perception collect data?
20. Is perspective fixed or does it change?

When I look at a situation, things, experiences, information, my perspective on the same thing can change. I can adopt the same perspective as other people.

I can look at the same thing that I was looking at 5 years ago and see it differently. This means perspective is not fixed.

If perspective is in a state of fluctuation and not always the same, this means it is separated from that which never changes.

If it's separated from that which never changes that means it is divided.

If it's divided than this means duality, and that means the other perspective is available.

Look around and you Will see. Everything was made by a perspective. A perspective created a computer screen, my current perspective doesn't know anything about computer screens.

You can only know who you are(higher self) and who you're not (lower self) and not what you are in reality(highest self).

Reality is a projection. The projection goes from the higher dimensions to the lower ones. When it hits the 4D (4th dimension), that creates 2 polar oposites. And from one pole of those two, the projection continues to 3D. When you're identified with the body that's 3D, when your identified with thoughts that's 4D and when you surrender to 5D, you can bring into form something new, something original from the source without recycling the 4D illusions of duality or hitting the wall of 4D.

4D is divided, duality, mind illusions ... - mental dimension. When I identify with a certain perspective that is not based on my 3D human body but on my 4D mental dimension. Because the mind is divided, I can identify with a perspective that was channeled trough the human body of another being.

 

Quote

"When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change."

 

 

[Nahm]

Everyone's consciousness is the same love. Then there's our little thought filters on our self love which 'separates' us with a personal idea of 'self'. No self and love of self  & love of everyone are almost the same, in the sense of accessing this 'not only my' consciousness. It might be that a very large slice of relativity must be seen to be accepting enough of our self and others, to ironically see that there is no self or other. Just a shit ton of love doing stuff. 

[Nahm]

@Emerald  just a thought that might help communicate this thing that is hard to communicate, but, this is what's happening with Esther, abraham     and the hot seat audience member.   this is why she says to each person, you are the one.  she is not channeling some group of spiritual entities, she is the one, holds that perspective unfiltered, recognizes the audience member is the one, and wooshes "into them".  so it comes off as if she is wise, but is simply being the one that is both people.