Lp Course: Values Don't Feel Completely Authentic

[DawnOfReality]

Hi

I am working on my values. I have been working on these for a week, done the process twice and got almost the same results with both the processes. 

So here is the problem: although I got the same results twice and despite most of the values feel quite accurate, when I look at them I honestly don't feel very satisfied. And I cannot discern if it is either self-doubt by my lower-self that is trying to sabotage me (to use Leo's words) or it is actually inauthenticity. 

Is there a way to actually see that? 

I feel my own mind is hiding something, playing tricks and I struggle very much to dig deeper. I lack clarity, in a nutshell. 

Maybe I should stick with those for now and go on anyway? In pass 10 Leo says clearly that I should look at those and feel "myself"; so I don't know if it is good enough, my list, to keep going or I should refine it better. If the latter option, I would love some advice.

Thanks you very much, cheers! 

[Erlend K]

I'm not sure what this process is, but my view is that our value hierarchy is not something we sit down and think out in a rational way. We are very likely to end up with a list that sounds good, and that we would like to have. What we actualy,  deep down,  value the most, is something to be gradualy discovered by paying attention to what feels valueable/important as we go through our day to day life. 

[eskwire]

3 hours ago, Erlend K said:

I'm not sure what this process is, but my view is that our value hierarchy is not something we sit down and think out in a rational way. We are very likely to end up with a list that sounds good, and that we would like to have. What we actualy,  deep down,  value the most, is something to be gradualy discovered by paying attention to what feels valueable/important as we go through our day to day life. 

I agree. 

@DawnOfReality

Values and beliefs can get entangled. Use mindful observation and allow yourself some time. 

I wrote down my list of values several months ago and, after having enlightenment experiences, it looks like something a small alien child wrote. I don't care about it at all. 

(Haven't done the LP course, so if he is offering a process that alleviates that problem, my apologies.)

Edited September 23, 2017 by eskwire

[DawnOfReality]

@eskwire

I'll surely be looking mindfully. But it is hard as there is so much deception. However, despite being sort of aware of it before doing this course, getting in touch with the tricky mechanisms of our mind really blew me away. Damn, it is so interesting, yet frustrating! 

Thanks for your responses. Hopefully someone with a more practical advice (if there are any at all) will provide some help. Observation was already in my plan  (as well as corrections to the list through experiences)

[Saarah]

@DawnOfReality Try asking yourself and directly trying to answer, what exactly doesn't feel right about this value? 

Is there something you could add or take away to make it more authentic? 

Is any discomfort arising regarding a certain aspect of the value? Why?

Do I choose these values but then not like the idea of acting on them for any reason? 

Maybe you could share with us your values and we can figure it out  

Some values you may want to adjust and put in your own words, the list is meant as a guide so it doesn't have to be directly the same as the words on there e.g. One value I came up with was 'Meaningful interaction' which has the component of kindness and generosity but I don't necessarily like those values in their own right so I had to adjust it to myself and a preferred context 

Think about your life experience and what you've seen yourself doing and preferring to do. Also try thinking of times where something was authentic but you held yourself back from expressing that or bringing it into your life (that would help find where your self esteem might be coming in). 

A way to perhaps take your self esteem out of it (unless who knows maybe projection gets in the way lol) would be to role models or people you like. What do you like about them, maybe they express authentically a value that is truer for you? 

[DawnOfReality]

@Saarah

Thank you. Tomorrow I'll devote my day to this process and if I still have any doubts I'll share with you guys! 

Meanwhile, tonight I worked on my strengths and that seemed to be pretty smooth!

[DawnOfReality]

Ok, I decided that I'll write everything here right away, mostly to force myself to be comprehensive and really explain everything that is going on. Hope it won't be a too long of a post, but I will be grateful if you'll read and give me some insights.  

(If you don't wanna read all, I am especially in need for some advice on Knowledge, as I described a problem I have and which I'll have to take action on the next days, you'd help me twice with that)

Top 10 Values (so far, and in order):

1.  Personal development
2.  Truth/Consciousness/Wisdom
3.  Impact
4.  Adventure
5.  Independence
6.  Courage/Self-discipline
7.  Elegance/Order/Beauty
8.  Humor
9.  Knowledge
10.  Creativity

First thing first: Efficiency used to be in top 3, as it has always been part of my mindset. That is REAL value of mine but I reckoned it was part of Personal Development, in my view. (But I noticed I am very sad not to see that word on the list anymore, because it was a part of self-development that has a priority for me, the most important part of self-development). I put Creativity instead.

I'm going to summarize what each value means for me and what problems I have with it, trying to dig into my mind as deeply as possible:

• PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT: Master most domains of human psychology and behaviour, like how we learn, how can we be efficient in what we do (work smart), how to relate to other people in an effective way, how to manage well our resources (e.g. finances) and to be successful in life in general. 
  Explanation: this is a pillar of mine. I have always been into it since I was 12 I think. It just bothered me to be as good as I can possibly be to get the best out of the things I get involved with. In some domains I am motivated negatively (mostly intimate relationships and maybe a bit forced in being successfull in academics by my family, but especially the last one is still a point I have real personal interest in, learning, thus knowledge being in my values list, I'll discuss it later).
  Another "problem" I see, is that I find a strange resistance to the idea of working in this field, as a job; it feels more like an instrument to achieve something else. That means I don't quite see myself coaching others for example, despite loving to talk with other people about it (but they usually don't seem to care  ) and appreciating somewhat the idea that my ideas could help them solving some of their problems. Maybe I am pushing myself too far in the future and in "what I could be doing", but I can't help it. Resistance over here! 
• TRUTH (the other words in the list above are synonymous for me): Discovering what existance is about. What secrests hide behind reality that covers them. Who are we, what are we here to do, how God (in the spiritual sense) moves everything. Spiritual work I guess.
• Explanation: I had been introduced to it by my mum and it really felt the ultimate purpose of life. This is in my value list as I can clearly see that if I didn't get a glimpse of it during my lifetime, I would feel like I wasted it. In spite of that, I consider myself still attached to material achievements: in fact I can't really get how people can be happy meditating in a monastery for the rest of their lives BUT I can see that there is a strong motivation, that there is Truth in what they are doing, just I am maybe not spiritually developed to feel it yet (it sufficies to say that I got into it before Actualized.org took this more spiritual path, and I still rememeber how in the early days I felt it was a pity that he wouldn't dig deeper in spirituality, which I could see being the only valuable thing... although not following too much this idea in my life). I want to work towards it but without renouncing to material life just yet. That being said, I got quite biased on this one, as I got into it by reading a book that explains the philosophy and practice of a fairly different discipline which is purna-yoga. It aims at the same thing, but in a different way. So every other way feels unnatural or wrong to me. Limiting belief I guess. In fact even my basic meditation habit finds resistance which comes from this believes I have. 
  I think this is a value of mine but I sort of can't see myself embody it, at least not in the short term. That is why I am unsure.
• IMPACT (on other people/society): Helping others in bettering their lives OR move them in an emotional way.
  Explanation: I do not have a clear view on this one, nor a strong gut feeling for it. It mostly comes down to the fact that if you don't help others, if you do not contribute, your life is somewhat pointless; but I can see that this could bring some fulfillment.
   I am always happy to help others, and knowing that they solved a problem thanks to me makes me feel good (but not THAT good, although I don't really know what good is for sure). I for example like telling other how they could improve themselves, or if they can't get through an exercise (college colleagues) and they come to me I am always glad to do good. 
  Moving emotionally, instead, comes from the idea that I really value emotions in life. I feel shit when I am in a bad situation, but somehow, some time later, I can even see how good it is to have felt bad in that moment, just because it gave a certain undertone to the context (Either a romantic outlook on life or masochism ). But obviously I value especially "feel-good" moments. So, most of the time, music makes me feel like that, either happy, or charged or melancholic.
  Or also, have some kind of impact on society. I appreciate the ideas of different ways to make it work differently as I am not a big fan of capitalism. I used to be into political philosophy and I'd like to learn how economy works. But I have a feeling that this one feels more right to do than "it's me". Still, why not do it, I am thinking, change for the better is always a good thing.
• ADVENTURE: travel, know other cultures, other people and follow your calls, doing experiences and trying what life has to give you.
  Explanation: This one is the most "I wish I could" as my congruence is 1/10, and it pairs well with the next one, which is why it is 1/10. Anyway, I'd love to travel and see the world  and meet interesting people. I find the variety of the world fascinating, especially cultures and natural places. With experiences though, I mean a more wide thing: do stuff you never did (even washing the dishes, so at least I know how to do it, that is what I think; although I usually slack off), trying some jobs, go on some crazy adventure and, especially, take up the Hero Journey. I think that would make you feel really alive (but I never experienced, I traveled just once recently and that is it). 
  But if I am being honest SOME of it could be just me looking for toxic excitment, fueled up by the media (so maybe some negative influence?).
  AND maybe it could be due to the fact that  I never had any of this kind of experiences, which makes me think that I could be a value when it is not. I am not sure.
  Lastly, I see this as difficult to achieve, given my personal/economical situation plus my biggest strenght being prudence LOL
• INDEPENDENCE: being free from society conventions and duties. Being able to take your own decision freely, without anyone breathing on your neck, so that you can follow the path you truly want.
  Explanation: Congruence rating: 1/10. Lack of money, living in a isolate place made me used to the idea that I am stuck really. I feel like I have to work/study hard so that I can help my family (or think I am helping, I can see the subtlty); but I have got a fair amount of money with scholarships thanks to my hard work and this strengthened the idea that I should keep doing that. So, probably this is a 50/50 positive/negative value. But I really hate the fact that people, who should be naturally free, are forced by something not very clear being society to do certain stuff and to fit in. That just does not sound right to me. But I have no idea how to get out. I am stuck in my view. And that is why I cannot go on adventures!
• COURAGE: Having the guts to pursue your goals whatever the risks and obstacles.
  Explanation: Ok, I think mostly that this is a "you should be like this because it is right to be so" than me embody this principle. It should be clear by the last 2 points why I do not embody courage. BUT I admire brave people. I wish I was like them. Is this a good reason to make it a value of mine? I feel a strong "you should be like this" but a low level "it is me".
  Self-discipline I put it together because it is almost the same thing: do what you gotta do, day after day, no matter what. But they could differ a bit, as courage for me is more about a big endevour, self discipline more about tasks and small, daily goals. This one, I am probably best than other people (although I might have been brought up in an environment that kept telling me that I should do this and that, so I am not sure if it is genuine, probably it is, as I guess most people's values they take them from the environment), but nowhere near being disciplined.
• ELEGANCE/ORDER/BEAUTY: Dress elegant, do things with gracefulness and keep things in order (room/office tidy, organize your day etc.)
  Explanation: This is half toxic. 40% let's say. I got this idea of being elegant both because I like the way elegant people look (both in clothing and motion) but also because I wanna look good to other people's eyes. Especially girls  (Self esteem issue over here? I guess so). BUT I have done a year of Aikido (martial art) and loved its elegance in movements. It just blew my mind. I practiced 1 year with very good results (and then stopped because of lack of independence ahah, I was strong in it and enjoyed it though... ) and in just that single year (which was 4 years ago now) I still have some moves, I embodied it in my daily gestures. And I feel proud of it as I think it is beautiful. 
  Order in things just gives me clarity of mind, and ordered stuff gives me a sense of chill and beauty. 
• HUMOR: Laugh and make people laugh. And do not take life so seriously.
  Explanation: I feel satisfied when other people laugh to my jokes, not just because I feel appreciated, but especially because I know thanks to me someone is having a good time. I've always been a somewhat funny guy, but I lost it a bit with time and got it back just recently as I thought it was important to laugh. My sense of humor is not big by any means. In fact I am usually too damn serious about life and I recognize that very clearly. And I feel it is wrong. It's better, both for achievement and overall wellness to take it easy. So the "don't take life too seriously" statement is something I feel is right deep inside, but in an authentic way. This has to be a value of mine but I don't feel like I am strong in it, which is why I sometimes doubt it.
• KNOWLEDGE: Learning about life in general. 
  Explanation: So, this is my life in a nutshell. and probably a tricky one. First thing first I think knowledge is important, because it makes you better as a person, it allows progress, and in a sense, if you don't learn, you are living for nothing. I can see the importance of this with clarity. That being said, I have been learning for my whole life but in a very neurotic way. I am just 20 so it makes sense that this is what I have been doing most of the time. But most times I'd study because I have to, rather than I really want to study that thing. Sure there are things I find interesting (Personal Development especially) and I truly enjoy, but it was mostly a compulasary thing for me. I felt I had to do it for my self-image and for a sense of duty, BUT I enjoyed the process, the idea of having more knowledge overall, of knowing how it works. It felt nice but not indispensable. I'll try to explain this one: for example, right now I am studying Physics in college. I thought I liked Physics as I liked it in High School, as well as I liked Math. And I was pretty good at it. When came the time to choose, I was not sure 100% if I had to go with Physics or something else ( Economics and Philosophy were my other options): there was a certain interest but not a burning flame to do it and I don't consider myself strong in it, I am doing decently just because I know what hard work means, being it neurotic or not. So right now, I am doubtful because I like it but I feel it is not my thing 100% but at the same time it could just be that I am making up in my mind the wrong image of physics and what being a physicist really means; I am thinking that it is not really that important to read graphs that tell you that a new particle has been found, I mean, it does not directly affect people or our life and thus looks a bit pointless to me. Sure our knowledge of the physical world grows, but it is too much for its own sake. On the other hand I can feel how exciting it would be, and also I wonder whether there are other ways to be a physicist than the one I am thinking of and I still value the mindset Physics gives you to approach problems. Also I have a mania for how good mathematical equation can be and how much they can tell you in a single string,sometimes is more about that than Physics itself. 
  That is to say that I value Knowledge, but sometimes it feels pointless, especially if I compare it to knowledge in the spiritual domain (which, on the other hand, looks much more difficult to attain and with less impact on material life), so I don't really know if you could consider a value or not. Certainly I could not imagine myself a life without learning, that would be even more pointless. At this point I am thinking that I might just be involved in the wrong domain of learning and I am afraid to admit it. And I definitely feel a duty to go to college, as my life has been all about learning, this feels my only option right now. Learning itself feels my only option.
• CREATIVITY: Doing stuff in different ways and actualize what you have in mind.
  Explanation: This one was a replacement, but now that I am writing about it, it probably is not a value of mine. Is it enough to say that? I just think creativity is REALLY important and useful and I definitely wished I had it, but I am not, by any means, a creative person, and honestly, never tried to be (maybe because efficiency is my prominent value). So I guess this takes it out of the list (?)

CONCLUSIONS (?): I feel like I am judging very much these values with what my future has to be. Probably I the fact that they look inauthentic is because I can't see myself living a possible life that involves all those. Seems to fairy-tale in my eyes. And some of them are definitely negatively motivated. When I thought they were all positive but courage. Knowledge is definitely negatively motivated, as well as courage (which might not be a value of mine) and maybe Independence. 

I tried to be as self-honest as possible. I find it hard to dig deeper. I wrote about it but most things I cannot make up my mind yet. 

And if you arrived till here, thank you  It took me 4 hours of typing and self-inquiry. I did not hold back. 
 

Edited September 24, 2017 by DawnOfReality

[Saarah]

@DawnOfReality I think you got it all in your conclusion 

Maybe you prefer knowledge as "Practical knowledge" or just "Learning" because learning doesn't have to just mean gaining loads of knowledge so it's more flexible for you

For courage and independence it might be useful to ask "Do i still enjoy these as a value if I had it 10/10 embodied?"

e.g. You might get independence from family, financially etc and still enjoy your own individual expression so it's easier to see that it's more positive than negative motivation 

If you take out any others and add new ones just keep asking yourself questions then go with the gut feeling and see if you enjoy those values in their own right, 10/10 embodied regardless of what your life looks like now. Good luck, enjoy this fun process lol 

[DawnOfReality]

Thank you @Saarah . I am working it out today.

I have two more question relating Strengths this time, but are pretty much the same problem:
1) there is this strength (that test rated as my #1) which is Prudence. 

Now, it is definitely a trait of mine, also a quite visible one, and I can somewhat see how it can be useful in certain situations, but I also think it could be a weakness. So it is not clearly a strength in my opinion. It made me do good things in the past, but also held me back a lot, and I almost feel this is why I am taking this course.

Do you think I should get rid of it and replace it with another one? I can see only Perseverance (out of the other 19 strengths) being authentically mine, but especially these days, I do not embody it at all. I almost always drop. I keep up doing only if it seems REALLY REALLY important. If it is important but not enough, I drop whatever task that is. 

(Btw, I just want to see another point of view, not an answer to what to do. In my opinion, I should get rid of it, and put Perseverance. Prudence will come in handy anyways, it's not like I won't be prudent anymore.)
 

2) Gratitude is a trait of mine with which I have replaced Fairness-Equity-Justice, because I felt this one was stronger. BUT I don't see how it can be considered a Strength!!! I mean, Prudence could be a weakness as well, so I have an opinion on what to do at least, but gratitude, it can't be a weakness so I am clueless about this one. It feels just a character quality to me 

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by DawnOfReality

[Saarah]

@DawnOfReality I think the test is mainly highlighting the strength of the values so definitely take it on as that meaning, prudence is good judgement and wisdom, so it's best to focus on that part of it, rather than where you might use it in a limiting way, that's something else you can work on personal development wise. Same thing with the other ones.

The rest of it, don't overthink, go with your gut instinct of who you know yourself to be. Choose those that feel strong and you enjoy using them, enjoyment is a factor here, never mind if it could be used as a weakness or the imprortance level. 

From there you can decide whether prudence or perseverance etc. Whatever comes naturally and authentically  

Remember over time these will change as will your values, it's a constant flux and comes from observing yourself and it's best to come up with the answers through experience of life too, so think a little about it but after that you will start seeing more clearly from experience and you can change them as you see fit