Math As A Language For Phenomena

[Forestluv]

I recently watched an interview with the quantum physicist Sean Carroll. The interviewer kept asking "why" and "how" questions in an effort to understand the underlying phenomena. At one point Sean said something to the effect of: When I dig deep enough, there comes a point where I can't explain it in the English language, not even to myself. Yet, I understand the math and it works. . .  I found it interesting how Sean couldn't conceptualize and explain the phenomena in the traditional sense, yet was still able to just "get it". Importantly, he seemed comfortable with this. He wasn't struggling to fully explain it. He just gave simple analogies that pointed in the right direction. I thought about how my mind is not satisfied with just "getting it". My mind expends lots of energy trying to conceptualize and explain insights into words and images. I also thought about how different Sean's awareness and perspective of reality is from mine and how I would need to study math and physics for 15+ years to fully gain that perspective. And this is just one aspect of perception and understanding. I only perceive a tiny fraction of what is available.

 

[Joseph Maynor]

I've gotten a lot out of Enlightenment Theory.  The theory allows you to have a structure to hang your experiences on so you don't lose them.  But the theory is not the be all end all.  But people tend to pooh-pooh the theory too much too.  My path has found a place for very substantial theory, at least up until my recent ego-death experience.  Since then, theory is less important because I can just be Being and notice that everything else is not me, including the theory.  It's almost like the Ego needs the theory to take it beyond the point of no return, but once you get the full ego-death experience, the theory kind of falls away like a set of training-wheels.  I can make up many analogies now, whereas before I was stuck on certain words or ideas -- almost like the Ego was clinging to them as the Truth.  And I think that's a necessary stage in Enlightenment.  You gotta fake it 'till you make it in Enlightenment too it seems haha!  I think there is a utility for a heavy theory stage.  I was reviewing the theory everyday for a while.  But once you realize that you are just Being, the theory becomes pretty obviously nothing more than a lens that you can use to hang your enlightenment around as you progress along your path.  It's a roadmap almost.  I really have no interest to review the theory right now.  That could change though.  

Edited September 19, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Leo Gura]

@Serotoninluv And yet, Sean is still confusing the map for the territory.

No language, including math or physics, gets at the existential nature of reality.

[Forestluv]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

@Serotoninluv And yet, Sean is still confusing the map for the territory.

No language, including math or physics, gets at the existential nature of reality.

Would the map be natural phenomena of quantum physics and the territory be the existential nature of reality?

[Scholar]

6 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Would the map be natural phenomena of quantum physics and the territory be the existential nature of reality?

You are asking him for another map. To see the territory you need to stop looking at the map. 

[Leo Gura]

@Serotoninluv The map is whatever ideas you have about reality.

The territory is BEING.

[Forestluv]

@Leo Gura

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@Serotoninluv The map is whatever ideas you have about reality.

The territory is BEING.

Thank you.

Do I need maps to find my territory?

[Leo Gura]

@Serotoninluv The only thing that exist is the territory! Look around. Everything you see is territory. Even maps are made out of the territory.

[Shin]

4 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Leo Gura

Thank you.

Do I need maps to find my territory?

Dude, that's like saying you need a car to walk ...

[Forestluv]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Serotoninluv The only thing that exist is the territory! Look around. Everything you see is territory. Even maps are made out of the territory.

Ahhh, so everything here and now is the territory (including any thoughts and feelings that may arise). Higher states of consciousness are higher states of awareness of territory. The question that arises in my mind now is: "Is certain territory *better* than other territory?". This seems to bring me to the "judging" category. Based on this thread and the "Understanding Awareness" video, these judging thoughts are themselves territory, yet generally bring me to a lower state of consciousness (self awareness is reduced as the mind is consumed thinking about which aspects of territory are *better*). . . On the right track?

[Leo Gura]

@Serotoninluv Yeah, the territory is singular and undefinable. It has no name and no value-judgments say anything true about it. It just is. It's unknown what it is. It is itself. To see this requires dropping as many ideas about it as possible. The more ideas you have about it, the more distorted your perception of it.

[Principium Nexus]

@Serotoninluv You only have to understand how waves propagate through space and time. How they interact, how they create ripples and that reality is created where these waves collide. You don't need complex mathematics to grasp how this is done, look into nature and you will find all your answers.

[Principium Nexus]

I will write an interesting post soon about some amazing insights I have had and what this means for us human beings... In the meantime, enjoy your day