Understanding Meaning

[Emre]

Can someone elaborate on meaning, truth, value being relative? I mean wouldn't it be impossible to say 'Everything is relative.' because by saying that you refuse that 'Everyhting is relative.' is relative. You take it to be absolute. 

You are absolute on nothing is absolute. Can't really understand and doesn't really make sense to me.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Emre

[Nahm]

@Emre you are absolute love. All physical is relative to all physical, and relative to the absolute because there is no physical. It's all love. Without you, there is no relativity. 

[Emre]

@Shiva How can it be so? If something is absolute how can it be relative? If _A_ is absolute truth then it can not change for me and you. For example I can understand that colours are relative I mean simply a car that looks green to me might look grey to a colour blind person. And how something looks is all we know about its colour so it is not _absolutley green_

How come absolute be relative?

[Emre]

@Nahm Why is it not just your idea that 'all is love' but is absolute truth? If everyting is relative to other how can everything be love, for absolute certainty? I am sure it is not for someone that was raped at the age of 9 and faced his mom's and dad's death. 

[Nahm]

@Emre All is love. You have no idea what I've experienced. None. If you see someone without pain, you assume they have not had painful experiences like you. Allow the possibility that they have, and have transcended it.        When you're in the movie (relativity) , it's real and sometimes it's unfair and hurtful. When you step outside the movie (absolute) , you gain the experience / perspective that it is a movie (only relative). Have you ever watched a scary movie? You get a little scared. You go outside that night, and you have the 'it's scary' filter on. The next day, the "it was just a scary movie" is on. Lives are no different. The difficulty is in accepting that the truth is so mind blowingly amazingly awesome, because the illusion, the movie you're in, is so unbelievably convincing. It is just a movie and I am not actually the actor. All is well. 

[Leo Gura]

On 9/17/2017 at 8:03 AM, Emre said:

@Shiva How can it be so? If something is absolute how can it be relative?

How come absolute be relative?

How can it not be so?, is more like it.

All dualities must ultimately come full-circle. All distinctions must ultimately collapse.

The distinction between absolute and relative is itself dependent on one's perspective. From the relative perspective, the absolute must be separate from the relative. From the absolute perspective, they must be one.

Zero is infinity, infinity is zero.

Nothing is everything, everything is nothing.

Formlessness is form, and form is formlessness.

Heads must be tails, and tails must be heads. You cannot separate one side of a coin from another.

This requires an enlightenment experience to see. It's not going to make sense from your current level of consciousness.

[Naturalist]

Definition: -

Absolute = complete, infinite, supreme...

Relative = corresponding, dependent, connected...

According to the Chinese philosophy, everything has both the yin and the yang aspects.  Yin and yang are actually complementary but opposing forces interacting to form a whole greater than either separate part; thus bringing forth a dynamic system existing in harmony.  The visual representation of this concept is well depicted in the Taijitu symbol or the loosely referred to as yin-yang symbol.  Literally, Tai-ji means supreme ultimate – that represents an insightful reality of the dependent nature i.e. highlighting many natural dualities such as female and male, dark and light, low and high, cold and hot, water and fire, life and death, etc. 

In summary, Taijitu would represent the essential feature of absolute, whereas both yin and yang would represent the essential features of relative.  From an absolute perspective, one could witness the essential features of relative in play.  And from a relative perspective, one could witness the essential feature of absolute in play.   At the end of the day, any conclusions made are merely two sides of the same coin.

 

[Emre]

@Naturalist 2 sides of the coin, still not the same to me. I mean I still can’t get that simplest thing out of all you have said. I mean they are not seperate, obviously but when people say they are the same I don’t get it. They can not be seperated but they are different

 

[Emre]

On 9/19/2017 at 0:35 AM, Leo Gura said:

This requires an enlightenment experience to see. It's not going to make sense from your current level of consciousness.

It literally does not and I won’t deny it untill I get that enlightenment experience ,which I don’t know if I ever actually get it tho, but will work on ‘coins’ that’s for sure. 

See I completely get it that heads can not be seperated from the tails because the moment you do heads are not heads anymore it requires tails to exist. But heads are NOT the tails, they are not identical. To me, they are different but not seperate.

 

[Naturalist]

@Emre The Two Sides of the Same Coin

Analyse this...

[Naturalist]

‘Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact.  Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.’

                                                                                                                                  ～ Marcus Aurelius ～

‘If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough.’

                                                                                  ～ Albert Einstein ～

[Nahm]

@Emre What you are is reality, is absolute.

What you’re calling reality is an illusion. All of the illusion is relative to all of the illusion, because you are perceiving it. It helps to say there is physical (illusion) and non physical (illusion), and then to say there is absolute, which is not physical, nor non physical. Absolute isn’t experienced by anyone - anyone experiences being absolute. As in, you’ll never see it or hear it, or read it or learn it, but you can be it seeing and hearing (in a spiritual yet literal sense). 

Another conceptual perspective is to remember your most recent dream. While you were dreaming, it seemed real, and other people in the dream seemed like other people. You didn’t know it was your dream, but that has no bearing on the truth - that it was your dream, and those were not ‘other people’.