Is Murder Wrong?

[Damir Elezi]

I'm not trying to open up a philosophical debate about morality here. I think that most people on here would agree that morality is relative, and speaking of the absolute, there is no morality, as it is just a construct of the mind. 

A thought has crossed my mind today though. If there is no meaning in absolute reality and nothing is better or worse than anything else (as those are just labels), killing a human being would basically be equally insignificant as killing a spider or an insect. Of course all of life is beautiful, but again nothing is more or less beautiful right? I noticed that If you really try to detach from moral values, you should detach from this as well, does that mean that for a certain time we should be 'okay' with killing people?

Just hypothetically speaking, that's why I posted it into this category.

[jwkspeck]

Murder being "wrong" is probably a belief stemming from the ego's desire for self-survival. Does a gazelle see a lion as evil?

If you're conscious, you quite likely won't be killing people. Being okay with murder should be lumped in with being okay with everything - accepting reality as it is and as it should be, including murder, rape, genocide, so on.

Having a judgement about murder, or beliefs about how we should behave is an unconscious mechanism to keep unconscious humans from being malevolent.

But rules and laws are clearly not even close to being as effective as being a conscious human - they make us neurotic, and more often than not cause us to repress thoughts, desires and emotions that we will be unable to deal with when they arise.

I doubt you're okay with murdering people. You don't need a law or a religion or a parent to tell you that you will create suffering for yourself by making another suffer. We're very empathetic creatures - I can understand very viscerally that what hurts me can really hurt you.

[Toby]

Research the pre-/post-fallacy from Ken Wilber. It applies also on morality.

[YaNanNallari]

Yeah we should be okay, not that it's easy. Seeing death can also raise questions about life, existence etc which is all good. Anyway it would be a very unsafe and just generally bad environment to be in if murdering was allowed.

[Scholar]

You don't have to be okay with anything. Not being okay with murder is not good or bad either. But if you are not okay with murder, be honest about it. You don't have to pretend you are not because of some philosophical idea you've heard. 

Just because there is nothing "wrong" with murder, doesn't mean that you should simply accept it, because it's "okay". Nothing is okay, nothing is not okay. Okay is a judgement you make. In the end, the letting go of morality is only supposed to serve YOU, nobody else. So, if you think that being okay with murder will benefit yourself on your path, then you will do so. But in most cases, I would say that it is benefitial to be not okay with murder. 

But this mechanical thinking is exactly what you were supposed to free yourself of. When we say morality is relative, we don't say you HAVE to throw it out the window completely. That would be equally mechanical in nature. Becoming a conscious being means making EACH decision consciously. Moral rules are unconscious, because they generalize behaviour.

We have the rule "murder is wrong", so that we NEVER murder. But look at what you are doing this very moment. You are constructed the rule "Morality is relative, we should accept all that we previously considered wrong", and by that you become once more a machine that is ruled by a "code". It's really nothing else but morality, just that you don't use the same word.

You should become conscious of why morality is used, what it's benefits are, and what kind of damage it does when used unconsciously. Furthermore you should question everything else, all the time. 

 

The ego just plays itself by the fiddle. I mean look at you. You are saying morality is realitve, and then you ask "SHOULD we do this and that?". Are you serious? The SHOULD is the fucking problem. You shouldn't do SHIT. Make your own, conscious decision, each time there is a decision to be made. And don't just listen and do what I tell you, think for yourself!

This shit is deeply routed into your mind. Your entire thinking is STILL moralistic, just by looking at the usage of your words, and the questions you ask, any aware human can see that. So stop making more philosophical arguments and start to OBSERVE how you are still moralistic. How you still think in should. How you still try to take life and find a mechanic so that you don't have to be conscious anymore. You are doing nothing but renaming morality. It will do just as much harm as thinking morally does, because it IS thinking morally. Do not change your ideas, change the way you operate.

 

This will take years.

Edited September 14, 2017 by Scholar

[RichardY]

What exactly is being murdered?

 

[Nahm]

@Damir Elezi it's not that you are nothing, it's that your ego is nothing. all is well. All is you. All is love. It's hard to accept, but the question of if murder is wrong, is up to you. 

[Spiral]

It's fine, feel like a waste of time tho. Don't you have better things to do?

[smd]

If someone was trying to murder me, then I'd say yes.  Yes, it is wrong.  And may they rot in jail or get the needle for what they've done.

[RichardY]

Anyone see the movie Sunshine(2007)? There is a scene that where Pinbacker Captain of the Icarus says "For seven years I spoke with God. He told me to take us all to heaven." Anyway the movie involves "restarting" the life of the sun, what it is about I guess is debatable.

[Laputan Machine]

the only place in which murder is almost universally wrong is the law, as it should be. in real life it's something that we should, generally speaking, avoid and leave for law enforcement and military to do.

[Emptystickfigure]

Yes, it is. 

Well, screw me. I'm old school! I don't relate to post-modernism very much.

[Moreira]

When I want to know if something is right or wrong I observe nature.

You can see animals killing other animals to have food and survive. They hardly ever kill other from ego based actions like fighting for a female, the weak one give up the fight after being killed.

So yes, murder is wrong unless it's for your own survival.

[SFRL]

1 hour ago, Moreira said:

When I want to know if something is right or wrong I observe nature.

You can see animals killing other animals to have food and survive. They hardly ever kill other from ego based actions like fighting for a female, the weak one give up the fight after being killed.

So yes, murder is wrong unless it's for your own survival.

 

 

Edited September 26, 2017 by SFRL

[Joseph Maynor]

Is it wrong when you murder a cockroach?  Morality always depends on perspective.  From the human perspective, in most cases yes, murder is wrong.  But from a non-human perspective maybe not, right?  So, morality is very sensitive to perspective and to context.  Just saying "murder is wrong" without adding something to the end of that sentence to qualify it is misleading and overstated.  But we do that all the time: it's implied that we are considering the human perspective on morality.

The other day I was walking to my office and there was a food-truck parked out front of my building that sells chicken, and the truck had a giant fiberglass roasted chicken bolted to the roof of the truck.  For a moment I thought how unethical, dark, and morbid that image would look from the chickens' perspective.  What if that was a truck selling human meat if aliens took over Earth with a giant fiberglass roasted human bolted on top!  Consider that.  Visualize it.  Now -- would it be wrong to eat humans from the aliens' perspective?  If so, why isn't it wrong for us to eat chickens?  See?  Morality is highly contingent on perspective and context.

What is morality from the perspective of all perspectives?

Relevant video:

 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Nahm]

What if everything murdered instantly was God. 

[RichardY]

 

[Nahm]

[cly]

I stop and think, why would one think it’s wrong?

[Milos Uzelac]

On 9/14/2017 at 7:29 AM, Toby said:

Research the pre-/post-fallacy from Ken Wilber. It applies also on morality.

Thank you  for the link bellow I found meditation intensives in my city being organized. You eased me off a lot with that , thank you!