Big Personal Question For Leo

[William32]

Why is it more of a priority to you that you should focus on personal development and spiritual enlightenment rather than stop or prevent suffering in the world?

Even if you think one’s ego is fictional, do you seriously think the fact that people experiencing excruciating pain everyday is not top priority to fix? Does the reality of torture not strike you as an emergency that should never have to happen again? Do you not think sentient life is ultimately a bad thing simply because of the horrific sensations it is capable of experiencing? Why should pain and suffering ultimately be acceptable in society even though everyone knows they would never want to experience those feelings if they had the choice? Do you not think our psychology is simply deluding us and making rationalizations on how suffering is ultimately okay as long as pleasant feelings somehow make up for it? Do you not think this self-deception is why procreation is socially acceptable even with the knowledge that the world is a dangerous place to live in? After all, people continue to reproduce despite the fact that half of the world’s population lives on less than 3 dollars a day, and despite many, many other potentially harmful factors.

The only possible way that society at large stays motivated enough to march on while ignoring many of life’s dangers and problems is by rationalizing that the pleasures they sometimes feel simply outweighs the pains and discomforts they often feel. If anything, advertising for people to master their psychologies enables people to think they can win at life when realistically they will mostly experience loss. And although some individuals are clearly losing less than others, a person generally only wins at the expense of someone else’s well-being, which shouldn’t be celebrated as a good thing. Therefore, I don’t see how promoting the mastery of psychology without addressing the life problem is responsible at all. You are a very insightful, hard working individual. But I think you need to reconsider your priorities in what people should be taught to consider first and foremost. To summarize again, the process of achieving personal gain is usually not worth the cost of the negatives that come along with it. Promoting people to be successful in the traditional sense of the word is overall promoting people to be insane. I appreciate the work you have done, but it is always disappointing when otherwise intelligent people such as yourself do not advocate ethics above all else.

[Sarah Marie]

@William32 Sorry, I don't think there is really any nice way to put this. 

Have you ever considered that Leo's videos actually ARE stopping suffering of the world? 

Let me give you an example. A female, mother and wife who had been suffering from codependency and people pleasing all her life. She struggled with bulimia and addiction problems stumbles upon Leo's videos. She watched the "How To Stop Caring What People Think Of You" and suddenly something he said clicked in her mind, the way he said it made sense to her. With every video she watched it made more and more sense she started down a road of self love. 

Well, it turns out this girl is a medium who can connect living people to their dead loved ones. Because she was able to work through her issues with his help, she is helping thousands of people who are suffering here. 

Well that girl is me, and I am only ONE of those thousands of views on YouTube.

Imagine all the others who he is helping. 

I would highly recommend you sit down and take an honest look at yourself and ask "Why do I feel like I can say where someone needs to be on their journey? Who am I to criticize another's values and priorities?"

 

 

[Guest]

What is the basis for your ethics? Do you think they are absolute and immutable? What type of life would you rather have Leo live? Do you really believe humanity should strive toward absolute equality? When I read your post, all I really see is you imposing your perspective onto Leo, as if it was based on some axiomatic truth.

I get where you are coming from. It was toward the end of my teenage years when I shifted from the tendency toward personal ambition to the sentiment of putting an end to this world's suffering, feeling like ambition was the cause of much suffering. I felt that furthering one's own interests, was to one degree or another evil as it detracted from those who suffered more. I am now primarily operating on a level where I see the relative limits of different perspectives and worldviews, trying to understand these limitations and reconciling them with one another to give me a more holistic view of the world. The way I operate is bound to change again.

I think you will eventually get to the place where you realize that your consciousness has shifted in many regards throughout your life. The way you operate and view the world will make you see the futility of seeing someone else's approach as meaningless because you will always have much left to understand.

What you are doing here is advocating your moral opinion, and despite your good intentions and thinking, are being dogmatic. Your adamancy  in your views are likely hindering from exploring the points of other people's views because they seem to oppose your ideals. With further reflection, you will find the limitations of your own thinking and move to the next level of your consciousness.

 

   

Edited February 21, 2016 by Saitama

[DizIzMikey]

He is helping the world in his own way? You should be flaming at the people who sit and watch tv all day as a lifestyle, hell I wouldnt be surprised if Leo has sparked great minds for our generation to lead to less suffering, in the end supposedly enlightment brings that.

If you cannot help yourself, you are in no position to help anyone else.

[Leo Gura]

@William32 Reality is exactly as it is. It does not need "improvement". To believe that, is to create your own living hell.

Suffering is first and foremost the result of lack of self-awareness. So if you care about ending suffering in the world, start by curing yourself of all your illusions. Including the illusion that suffering is bad.

[William32]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@William32 Including the illusion that suffering is bad.

I am sure every single person who agrees with you would claim that suffering is not bad, yet I am also sure all of those same people would also just so happen to prefer living lives of comfort filled with peace and joy and happiness.

                                                                            

Let’s not pretend that you are totally fine with stabbing yourself in the eye just as much as you are getting a foot massage.

 

Even if a philosophical argument could be made that life is merely an illusion, that does not change the fact that physical and emotional sensations still feel absolutely real to the sentient beings experiencing them. What reasonable and honest counterargument can you possibly make to this? Are you going to suggest that everyone should simply be like the Buddha and achieve enlightenment in order to accept torture and learn how to become immune to it?

 

Even if such enlightenment were somehow possible, you would already know you have gone on record stating that only an extremely tiny fraction of people could ever achieve true enlightenment. So, how is it ethically responsible to teach people such absurd logic? How is it ethically responsible to teach your growing audience that, “there is no such thing as a victim. The only time anyone ever suffers is when it’s their own fault. Oh, and by the way, should you want to successfully overcome the worst of the worst possible feelings you may experience in your lifetime then you probably never will because historically most people never achieve true enlightenment. Sorry about that. Only some of us ever win in this preposterous game of life, but you can still maybe win a little bit every so often with my totally-not-flawed-whatsoever logic and advice! Anyway, feel free to make more babies if it makes you happy. I mean, who cares if something horrible is bound to happen to them just like how something horrible has happened to anyone who has ever existed? It's their fault for not being enlightened! Those poor, spiritually immature kids. If only they knew better and didn't have sole responsibility for all of my actions. They were the ones that told me to bring their lives into existence, damn it! I never imposed anything! Well, that's all for today. Please like and subscribe. Share this video. Sign up for my program. kthxbye.”

[DizIzMikey]

@William32 Let us not pretend stabbing yourself in the eye is a choice you make, as much as getting a foot massage is. I agree with you that physical and emotional sensations still feel absolutely(Don't know about absolute) real to me experiencing them. The counterargument is that all along it wasn't real, and there was nothing really to fright over, even if it did seem real, although I agree in my current state I hate when I suffer. I suggest you follow your own path as everybody else should, no one is forcing you to do so, go save the whales if you'd like, or people for that matter...whatever floats your boat. 

The logic in it is this for me, there is a chance that I can become something amazing that a tiny fraction can only achieve, like the elite, and through my life I have seen MANY paranormal abnormal things that wouldn't be considered logical to some, but nonetheless I go for it because #1 I think it's possible, and #2 If I'm unstoppable from within, than I can help more greatly than I would if I would go into the world with my many dysfunctions. 

 

Ethically? They use to sacrifice people and thought it was good..don't talk to me about ethics, unless of course you push the it, I will.

 

"Oh, and by the way, should you want to successfully overcome the worst of the worst possible feelings you may experience in your lifetime then you probably never will because historically most people never achieve true enlightenment. Sorry about that. Only some of us ever win in this preposterous game of life, but you can still maybe win a little bit every so often with my totally-not-flawed-whatsoever logic and advice!" - William 32

I'm not sure, but I don't think Leo said this is for everybody, after all... we have the majority of the fucking population watching TV and probably think that's what life is about!!!!! Whether they achieved true enlightenment or not is not the point, the point is that's what they chose to try and do, and they live with the consequences of those choices, no one put a gun to your head for you TO BE HERE. 

"Anyway, feel free to make more babies if it makes you happy." - William32

Uh...DUH.. IF IT..makes YOU... Happy ... It's not like Leo is right there standing over you to procreate..OR IS HE!?! 

I sense some victim mentality from you, I sense fear in you young sky-walker. 

 

I mean, who cares if something horrible is bound to happen to them just like how something horrible has happened to anyone who has ever existed? - William32 

Who makes that choice William? 

Ok wont respond to the rest of your rant..or argument or whatever you want to call it

I think honestly I did it out of pure entertainment, or perhaps to defend my beliefs...EITHER WAY IT WAS FUN

P.S. I know you were looking for Leo, but it's ok at least you got a reponse mmkay? Love yah =)

As you can tell I have nothing better to do, but in my defense today is my day off and it was quite enjoyable!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[vizual]

I'm curious to what the OP is doing to help the world stop suffering, and what his idea is of stopping the suffering. 

[Markus]

The idea of stopping suffering in the world is juvenile and idealistic. There's a new strain of virus or bacteria - people suffer. There's a natural disaster - people suffer. There is lack of food - people suffer. Okay then you say, let's say a certain course of action could raise the world's living standards to the point where people wouldn't have to worry about these things.

Well, such places more or less exist. A first world country where there's plenty of food and water, horrifying diseases don't run rampant and natural disasters either don't occur due to climate or the damage of them to people can be largely prevented. Are people happy? Just walk on the street and look at people's faces. Talk to them, or hear them talk. Bullshit. Their minds have created a living hell, invariably to at least some extent. That person thought badly of me, someone wronged me, he doesn't like me, she's such a slut, our government is a bunch of morons, I hate my job, I don't have enough time for myself, the world is meaningless, we're all gonna die, I have allergies and they're so annoying, girls don't think I'm attractive, I just can't find a partner, I'm so offended.

I wonder what extrinsic solution is gonna stop this. Better living standards? Hardly. Anti-bullying campaigns? Nope. Promoting conservative values in society? Nope. Having social media like Tumblr where people can "fight for justice"? Oh come on. Because the problem is - our minds are rotten. That worked to keep us alive and help us reproduce, but with the relative safety we have, it fails even at that.

People's problems are psychological. Not only in the 1st world but also the 3rd. Not only of neurotic and depressed lawyers and doctors, but also of children with TB and polio. Who is gonna fix people's psychological problems? Psychologists? No, the truth is, only they themselves.

Can you in any way be of use to people? Perhaps you can. It would first help to be self-honest about why you want to do that. A lot of the wishing to better the lives of people you never see or meet is probably trying to live up to a self-image of being a good person.

If you want to help others, help yourself first. Become enlightened. Do it. Clean up your unconscious garbage. Get to stage yellow and beyond on the spiral dynamics model. There is no other way to be truly loving and compassionate, plus effective. Have you ever seen how grumpy doctors and nurses often come off? Even hostile. To do what they do with all of your heart, you've got to get past your own petty bullshit. As long as you believe you're more important than anyone else and your ideas are better than anyone else's, you're not bettering the world. And as long as you believe you're a separate self, you will be like that. Quit lying to yourself. Admit how judgmental and narcissistic you are - it's helped me so far. 

The most effective person at changing the world is the person who understands that nothing needs to be changed. Otherwise you'll burn out. Your love will turn into bitterness, and then to hate. I closely know a person who went to become a doctor to "help others". That person is miserable. A miserable person can't love unconditionally, because misery comes from not loving unconditionally. You can't love unconditionally if you don't realize the world is perfect as it is. Yet you can't help others the best you can if you don't love unconditionally. You don't get to unconditional love by suppressing or denying the self, you get there by transcending it - with unapologetic selfishness. You don't transcend the self selflessly, now do you? Paradoxical, very much so. 

I'm writing this because I wanna show how great my ideas are. Because I want to be a savior, like Jesus. I should be cutting through this crap, rather than encouraging it. My posts perhaps help others, at least a bit. But the thought alone of that possibility fuels my ego. I just had an epiphany of sorts - if you believe you're an ego, any good that you may do or think you do is just fueling that ego, which will inevitably lead to that ego hurting someone due to its delusions of grandeur. 

Edited February 21, 2016 by Markus

[Isle of View]

There is no stopping of all the suffering from outside for others.

Every single individual needs to go this road for himself. 

The best you can do is promoting values and some of the ways you find useful. Even if you do one-on-one coaching or guidence for someone else, the person in front of you has to do the work himself. 

I know that in our society many people look out for the messiah who will come down from a clowd and do or say the right things and save us all. That just won't happen. 

All individuals are on some level of their spiritual rise (or fall). The more advanced individuals will include others into their vision of well-being. Will promote responsibility. Will promote self-education, alertness.

I actually can read your suffering @William32, but isn't it you expect too much from others? You're actually blaming others for not serving your expectations. When was the last time you helped someone? Or tried to? Did you fail? Did you succeed?
Or, have you ever stopped others from helping you? When was that? Who was involved? Why?

Leo is doing the right thing according to his visions from what I can see.

Have you worked out for yourself what your visions, goals and dreams are? Have you included others and their well-being into your considerations about a perfect (or at least upgraded) future?

 

Chris

 

 

[Fishy]

If all the people that caused suffering like torture etc would do some personal development before they went on doing what they do, they might be so aware of their inner problem and deal with it so that they did not cause the extra suffering in the first place.

Its a good thing to develop yourself, if you love yourself then you really can love and help other people.

Edited February 21, 2016 by Fishy

[Leo Gura]

12 hours ago, William32 said:

So, how is it ethically responsible to teach people such absurd logic? How is it ethically responsible to teach your growing audience that, “there is no such thing as a victim. The only time anyone ever suffers is when it’s their own fault. Oh, and by the way, should you want to successfully overcome the worst of the worst possible feelings you may experience in your lifetime then you probably never will because historically most people never achieve true enlightenment. Sorry about that. Only some of us ever win in this preposterous game of life, but you can still maybe win a little bit every so often with my totally-not-flawed-whatsoever logic and advice!

There is nothing ethically irresponsible about telling people a harsh truth.

Don't worry about historically. If you want to be enlightened, you can certainly do it. All this talk about how it's unfair that everyone isn't already enlightened is exactly the thing distracting you from doing your own enlightenment work. It's just pure distraction. By engaging in it, you perpetuate suffering in the world.

If you ever become enlightened, you will automatically inspire hundreds of people around you to do the same. And then real progress can occur. Until then, you're mostly just contributing to the problem.

[Aldo Marchand]

The pain is what makes you turn into the reality and also helps alot with the awakening process.

Real life and enlightenment does not exclude suffering, but it's important how to take advantage of the pain for the personal growth.

 

[ayokolomo]

If YOU feel the calling to help end suffering there are plenty of charities that are in desperate need of people to volunteer.  A quick google search and I am sure that YOU can find them.

But that does not mean everyone has that calling.