Relation Between Enlightment And Depersonalization?

[lucasgloves]

 So I was wandering if you guys know something about this topic, I have this disease for almost three years now and things seem to get worse everyday. Depersonalization is somehow related to fear and anxiety, it causes strange symptoms such as the feeling of like you're living in a dream, the entire reality feeling like an illusion.

 Anyway, I found some people who believe depersonalization is actually the opposite to enlightment. Some call it the "dark Knight of the soul" or "enlightment's evil twin". All I know is it feels really really bad. It may "feel" like an enlightment cause you don't feel like yourself anymore. You feel like a stranger seeing your own life passing by, but not in a positive way like Nirvana or something. 

 Pretty strange thoughts, it's a really unknown disease I think. When I found Leo's videos about spirituality and all I could relate so much about those topics I almost cried. When you have DP you start to wander about reality and existence and consciousness and awareness very much,  pretty much all day long. 

 So, that's my state now, I'm living in some limbo I can't get out, and that's it. Anyone knows anything interesting regarding this? 

[Guest]

Interesting, I've never heard of this.  Your best bet may be in psychotherapy in addition to whatever self-actualization work you are doing.  

Do you  have a regular mediation habit?

[lucasgloves]

I do, actually. I practice mindfulness everyday, which helps a lot. Never tried any professional work, though. Don't know, sharing these things with someone besides really close friends feels weird so..

[jimboJones]

Gday Lucas, can't speak from experience but I came across this channel a few days ago which might help, the guy seems pretty switched on!   https://www.youtube.com/user/HarrisHarrington.  Go see a psychologist though, and don't settle for one unless they seem good. I'm really interested in this experience, it's like the ego is partially dissolved but the fear, hopelessness and despair aspects are very much still there. Everyone has their reasons for wanting ego-death and it's unfortunate the people who could benefit the most are the most likely to really fuck their minds up. I hope everything works out though!

[Pipo]

@lucasgloves

Hi Lucas,

hopefully I can help you with my recent experiences. I most likely suffer from depersonalization, too, having my lowpoint last year and, at the moment, getting better by the day. As it turns out, I've blocked out parts of my sensory input by hypertensing muscles throughout my body. The most severe symptom (or maybe just the most easily noticable one) is a decline in quality of sight but hearing, taste, smell and touch are also affected. Thus, the first step I would redommend you to take is to look for any big tensions you have at the moment.

[lucasgloves]

Thanks for the reply guys! The thing is, from my knowledge there is no definitive cure for DP. Trying to forget about it and believing I have nothing actually helps too, but I don't know, it always come back (three years in this come and go thing). 

 It certainly feels like an ego death like I said, I have no more sense of self, but not in a positive, bright way like enlightment. Like I'm still holding to something. Interesting anyway. 

[Pipo]

1 hour ago, lucasgloves said:

The thing is, from my knowledge there is no definitive cure for DP.

Why ask for new information when you think your information is sufficient to judge your condition ?

[Isle of View]

@lucasgloves 

Can you tell us something about what happened just before this DP was triggered?
Can you recollect the time just before it happened?
Do you know what triggered this?
(any drugs, extensive yoga, meditation, breathing techniques, spiritual ascension experience)

Also:
have you any unpleasant feelings going along with the phenomena/experience of DP?
 

If it is an up/down experience, can you tell what it is that causes it to go up?
Have you spotted any activity that seems to improve your situation?

Do you feel depersonalized like "who the fuck am I?" or is it rather a form of detachment, like "how can I connect to people and have a good time being who I am?"

Kind regards, 
Chris

 

 

[Kelley White]

On 2/21/2016 at 4:36 PM, lucasgloves said:

 So I was wandering if you guys know something about this topic, I have this disease for almost three years now and things seem to get worse everyday. Depersonalization is somehow related to fear and anxiety, it causes strange symptoms such as the feeling of like you're living in a dream, the entire reality feeling like an illusion.

 Anyway, I found some people who believe depersonalization is actually the opposite to enlightment. Some call it the "dark Knight of the soul" or "enlightment's evil twin". All I know is it feels really really bad. It may "feel" like an enlightment cause you don't feel like yourself anymore. You feel like a stranger seeing your own life passing by, but not in a positive way like Nirvana or something. 

 Pretty strange thoughts, it's a really unknown disease I think. When I found Leo's videos about spirituality and all I could relate so much about those topics I almost cried. When you have DP you start to wander about reality and existence and consciousness and awareness very much,  pretty much all day long. 

 So, that's my state now, I'm living in some limbo I can't get out, and that's it. Anyone knows anything interesting regarding this? 

Hi @lucasgloves  Thank you for starting the thread.

For future readers, lets make sure we are working from the same understanding of depersonalization and the treatment, so a link to Wikki

Quote

 

:Treatment is dependent on the underlying cause, whether it is organic or psychological in origin. If depersonalization is a symptom of neurological disease, then diagnosis and treatment of the specific disease is the first approach. Depersonalization can be a cognitive symptom of such diseases as amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, Alzheimer's, multiple sclerosis (MS), neuroborreliosis (Lyme disease), or any other neurological disease affecting the brain. For those suffering from depersonalization with migraine, tricyclic antidepressants are often prescribed.

If depersonalization is a symptom of psychological causes such as developmental trauma, treatment depends on the diagnosis. In case of dissociative identity disorder or DD-NOS as a developmental disorder, in which extreme developmental trauma interferes with formation of a single cohesive identity, treatment requires proper psychotherapy, and — in the case of additional (co-morbid) disorders such as eating disorders — a team of specialists treating such an individual. It can also be a symptom of borderline personality disorder, which can be treated in the long term with proper psychotherapy and psychopharmacology.[26]

The treatment of chronic depersonalization is considered in depersonalization disorder.

A recently completed study at Columbia University in New York City has shown positive effects from transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) to treat depersonalization disorder. Currently, however, the FDA has not approved TMS to treat DP.[citation needed]

A 2001 Russian study showed that naloxone, a drug used to reverse the intoxicating effects of opioid drugs, can successfully treat depersonalization disorder. According to the study: "In three of 14 patients, depersonalization symptoms disappeared entirely and seven patients showed a marked improvement. The therapeutic effect of naloxone provides evidence for the role of the endogenous opioid system in the pathogenesis of depersonalization."[27]"

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization

 

C-PTSD is an emerging field of diagnosis and it covers personalization, disassociation and depersonalization related to severe trauma.

A great resource in addition to any outside therapy.... http://www.amazon.com/Complex-PTSD-Surviving-RECOVERING-CHILDHOOD/dp/1492871842

 

 

 

[Kelley White]

I will also throw out there for consideration, BPD, Borderline Personality Disorder is often misdiagnosed C-PTSD as are many of the cluster B Axis disorders.

[Kelley White]

I found it helpful t compare the Pete Walker information with Sam Harris' observations and then tried to find the central pattern I was engaged in.  I hope some of this proves helpful for you.

 

 

 

[Kelley White]

On 2/21/2016 at 6:09 AM, jimboJones said:

Gday Lucas, can't speak from experience but I came across this channel a few days ago which might help, the guy seems pretty switched on!   https://www.youtube.com/user/HarrisHarrington.  Go see a psychologist though, and don't settle for one unless they seem good. I'm really interested in this experience, it's like the ego is partially dissolved but the fear, hopelessness and despair aspects are very much still there. Everyone has their reasons for wanting ego-death and it's unfortunate the people who could benefit the most are the most likely to really fuck their minds up. I hope everything works out though!

Thanks for the resource site.  @jimboJones I'm checking it out now.

[Kelley White]

18 hours ago, Isle of View said:

Can you tell us something about what happened just before this DP was triggered?
Can you recollect the time just before it happened?
Do you know what triggered this?
(any drugs, extensive yoga, meditation, breathing techniques, spiritual ascension experience)

Also:
have you any unpleasant feelings going along with the phenomena/experience of DP?
 

If it is an up/down experience, can you tell what it is that causes it to go up?
Have you spotted any activity that seems to improve your situation?

Do you feel depersonalized like "who the fuck am I?" or is it rather a form of detachment, like "how can I connect to people and have a good time being who I am?"

Kind regards, 
Chris

Awesome questions to consider. @Isle of View

[Isle of View]

Thanks @Kelley White

I hope @lucasgloves will show up and consider them.

[lucasgloves]

 Yeah but I mean I don't know what should I focus in, I remember one of Leo's videos when he say something like enlightment is the last step in the stairway, first you need to get rid of the small problems, like anxiety and fear. So I'm kind of mixed between doing this spiritual work, mindfullness and all, or working on fear and anxiety which I sure do have a lot or something else...

On 22/02/2016 at 2:55 PM, Kelley White said:

C-PTSD is an emerging field of diagnosis and it covers personalization, disassociation and depersonalization related to severe trauma

 And yeah, some people say Depersonalization is also someway related to trauma. I'm not really into traumatic experiences, so don't know if they would really affect me this bad. See? There's so many possible causes I don't know where to start. My opinion always was, "oh I don't know what caused this but I'm gotta stop making this labirinths in my mind just to try to figure it out", so I try to forget it and do my stuff in a normal way.

 Anyway thanks for the help, the more info related to these topics the better I think.

[Kelley White]

3 hours ago, lucasgloves said:

 And yeah, some people say Depersonalization is also someway related to trauma. I'm not really into traumatic experiences, so don't know if they would really affect me this bad. See? There's so many possible causes I don't know where to start. My opinion always was, "oh I don't know what caused this but I'm gotta stop making this labirinths in my mind just to try to figure it out", so I try to forget it and do my stuff in a normal way.

 Anyway thanks for the help, the more info related to these topics the better I think.

@lucasgloves I observe its a different process for everyone, and its not linear.  Do what works for you. You are very welcome, and I wish you the best in your process.  We are just happy to be here to support one another.

[Yungbunion]

Hey I've struggled with depersonalisation and anxiety for a long time but I've got over a lot of it

basically its a symptom of anxiety and you have to lose the fear of it to get over it. So you need to willingly accept the symptom and go do stuff which is really hard to do when your in that state. Fighting to get rid of it, to figure out what it is and to dwell on it won't help. The good news is if you can just accept it experience and keep busy doing activities, hobbies, things where you experience your senses it will go.         It's also a consequence of too much introspection and thinking and ruminating and I would say the enlightenment stuff is very in your head so leave it for now and just get busy doing things.

exercise is good

meditation I find can make.it a bit worse until you understand how to deal with your DP

reading about it and checking forums is bad, just accept it and keep busy (hard I know).

google

holy Grail of dp/dr

and anxiety no more, has a really good blog ,also the book at last a life helped me a lot

basically it seems like the worst thing ever but it's actually not, and you have to experience coming out of it to understand.

also there will be a lot of setbacks on your recovery so it will come and go just accept this

good luck you'll get there.

[Fishy]

I experienced denationalization for a long time after a really strong "bad" trip on shrooms. The way I got out f it was by accepting that i had to experience this world like and myself like it was now, and that i was not the person i was before anymore through meditation.

[StephenK]

I developed depersonalization when I was 16 years old -- I'm 26 at the moment and it is still with me. I spent years trying to figure out the "what/why/how/when" of the situation with little success until recently. However, it is not all doom and gloom. Over the years, there are definitely a few things that I am certain of (in my case, at least):

1) Depersonalization is definitely the byproduct of an anxiety disorder.

2) Depersonalization is not a form of ego-death -- it is the opposite.

I remember when my depersonalization first started: I was going through a really traumatic time in my life: self esteem issues, abandonment, emotional trauma, bullying etc. I remember lying in bed one night with my eyes closed, trying to escape the hell of my situation. I searched in the empty void of my mind for something that was 'me' -- I couldn't find it -- all I saw was emptiness; there was no 'me' to be found. This is when an utter dread filled my mind and when the depersonalization started its engines.

I want to reiterate one thing though: depersonalization is not the result of the death of the ego -- in fact, its the complete opposite: its the ego recoiling and contorting itself in the face of the majesty of non-self.

Generally, two things can happen when faced with non-self: either ones' ego gives in and accepts its void nature (this is healthy spiritual development), or the ego begins to falsely assign 'fear/dread/depression/anxiety/hopelessness' to the void. In depersonalization, the ego falsely turns emptiness into a monster and lives in a perpetual state of running away from this contorted perception of emptiness. I'ts kind of like a child running through the woods, thinking that shadows are chasing him/her. 

The most important thing that I have personally learnt is that depersonalization is just the result of a really sick, ill, suffering ego that does not accept its true nature. So when I meditate, my depersonalization is as much an object of meditation as my breath is -- its all just mind-stuff that is in a constant state of flux. As for dissociative disorders in general, I think that the issue is that one believes that somehow a 'self' has been lost, while the reality is that it (the ego) has just become contorted and sick.

 

 

Edited February 25, 2016 by StephenK

[Kelley White]

On 2/21/2016 at 6:09 AM, jimboJones said:

Gday Lucas, can't speak from experience but I came across this channel a few days ago which might help, the guy seems pretty switched on!   https://www.youtube.com/user/HarrisHarrington. 

@jimboJones, this was really  an interesting video.